The NottAlone Podcast
Real talk about mental health with Dr Orlaith Green and Dr Maddi Popoola
Series two episode two: Gambling, addiction and recovery with Jah Digga
Episode description
Episode #2 Gambling, addiction and recovery with Jah Digga
Content warning: this episode contains explicit language.
In this episode, Nottingham rapper, poet, and youth mentor Jourdan Blair, better known as Jah Digga, opens up about his personal journey through addiction, the grip of gambling, and the long road to recovery.
We explore the psychology of addiction: the highs, the spirals, and the quiet strength it takes to rebuild. Jah speaks candidly about how addiction impacted his mental health, relationships, and identity – touching on themes of trauma, pride, validation, and the pressures of masculinity.
From battling insomnia and anxiety to finding healing through structure, the gym, and music, Jah shares the tools that helped him reclaim his life. The episode is anchored by his raw and resonant freestyle, “Addictions” (2025), a track that’s struck a chord with millions.
We also discuss the role of community, the power of routine, and the responsibility artists carry when their words influence young minds. As Jah puts it:
“Forget the platform. As artists, we’re all responsible because we’re projecting. And the kids out there are listening.”
Whether you’re facing your own challenges or seeking to better understand addiction, this episode offers honesty, insight – and hope.
Follow Jah Digga: [@JahDigga]
Support is available:
- GamCare, part of the National Gambling Support Network – 0808 8020 133
If you’re struggling and need urgent help:
- NHS Mental Health Support – Dial 111, then press option 2
- Nottingham & Nottinghamshire Crisis Sanctuaries – 0330 822 4100
- Samaritans – 116 123
Please remember to subscribe for future episodes and leave us a comment, rating or review wherever you listen to help us reach more people to join in the conversation.
We’d love to hear your thoughts on this episode and any suggestions on what you want us to cover next! You can get in touch by leaving us a comment, on our social media or by emailing nottalone@nottscc.gov.uk.
Remember, whatever you’re going through, you are not alone.
Transcript of episode
Music: Whatever you’re going through, I hope you know you are not alone…
Maddi: Ey up. Welcome to the NottAlone podcast. I’m Maddi.
Orlaith: And I’m Orlaith.
Maddi: We are the co-founders of NottAlone. We’re both also educational psychologists and we’re both parents. We are so thrilled that you’ve clicked onto this podcast to join us as we delve into all thing’s mental health and well-being.
Orlaith: Let’s face it, we all encounter challenges and tough times in our lives. So, we want to talk about these experiences in the hope it helps others and reminds you it’s okay to not be okay. No matter what you’re going through, you are not alone.
Maddi: We will be having real conversations about mental health. Some topics will be challenging and maybe upsetting. So please do listen with care.
—
Orlaith: Hello, welcome back everyone, and thanks for joining us for another episode.
Maddi: So today Orlaith, addiction. We’re going to be talking about addiction. Tough topic to talk about but needed.
Orlaith: Yes, absolutely. We’re going to talk about the links with mental health and we’re going to talk a little bit in a particular area of addiction, which is addiction to gambling.
Maddi: Yeah. So, we’ve got Jourdan Blair on today, who, is, a local music artist from Nottingham and he has recently released a song called Addiction. And, the song really reflects his own experiences of gambling addiction. We’re really honoured to have him here today to talk to us and for Orlaith and I to support him by asking questions and thinking about what helps.
Orlaith: We really want you guys to hear from Jourdan. I think he’s got an amazing approach to his work and the way he wants to talk about what he’s learned from his experiences.
Maddi: So, yeah, listen, enjoy. and most importantly, take care.
Jourdan: Why am I chasing. Why am I chasing something? And that’s. It hit me. It hit me in my face like I’m an addict. Like, I lost everything. I lost my missus, I lost my, my household. You know what I’m saying?
Orlaith: People like you have a superpower to help us have these conversations about mental health.
Jourdan: I’ve got a responsibility as an artist.
—
Maddi: Jourdan, welcome. Thank you so much for being here. We’re so grateful to you, we’re covering quite a difficult topic today, so we really, really appreciate you coming along, to give listeners a little bit of a background. So, I’m friend of a friend, I guess yourself. And, I was strolling, stalking Instagram as you do, and I came across your song Addiction. And it really, really, really struck me, the words struck me, the honesty in it, the rawrity of it – I don’t even know if that’s the word, probably just made that up.
Orlaith: Stop showing off, I can make up words.
Maddi: So it just really struck me as something that, so many people I think are going to relate to, hence why I’ve, I’ve hunted you down and got you on the podcast. So, yeah, thank you so much for being here.
Orlaith: Yeah, thank you so much.
Jordan: Hello. Hello. Thank you for having me first and foremost. Yeah, my name’s Jourdan, Jordan Blair. Stage name’s Jah Digga. I’m a musician, I’m a rapper, I’m a poet, spoken word artist. Born and raised in Nottingham – St. Anne’s Nottingham. Yeah, you know, representing. But yeah, I’ve been doing music. I’ve been, I’ve been writing music for, for many, many years. Since I was a teenager now. You know, I mean, I’m 30s now, so music’s always been a, an escapism for me, you know what I mean? Music’s always been that thing that I’ve always just loved to do, you know? Yeah, just. So started off in St. Anne’s making music with my friends. But then we kind of got like a, you know, got kind of popular. People was resonating with what we was doing and it just took a snowball effect. So we started. It started getting kind of bigger, like going to Derbye, then going to Leicester and it’s branching out to Birmingham and West Midlands and then Bristol. Then it just gets, it just gets bigger and bigger, you know what I mean. So, yeah.
Orlaith: And, what did you write about when you first started, you and your friends?
Jourdan: Yeah, when it was first just starting out, I used to, you know, I used to do. I used to rap like, other lyrics, like over people’s lyrics just to get, the patterns, the patterns right, and just, just recite it and just, just know how to get yourself to perform it. You know what I mean? But then obviously we started writing our own stuff, our own content and that. And then, yeah, it was just, back then it was just we just showing off, you know, showing off just like, we’re the greatest, we’re the best, we. No one can’t challenge us, you know, I mean, that type of thing, gloating stuff as you do as young people. But then obviously as, as we start living life like our, our life, when we start experiencing things, are going through things, then we’ve got some real things to talk about it. Well, I, personally, me, I you know, I mean, I went through a lot as a young person, you know, Know what I mean? Seen a lot and, and I was exposed to a lot. So I. I felt like, you know, I got a gift in writing and so let me write about it. You got authors who write books. You got. You got, you know what I mean, People who do audiobooks now talk about things. But then you got musicians in it like me. Like, you know, I mean, storytelling. I got a gift. I can kind of storytell, you know, I mean, I’m paint a picture for the somebody that don’t do that kind of work. It’s. You know what I mean – they can kind of.
Maddi: But have the same feelings, isn’t it? I guess.
Jourdan: You know what I mean. Resonate with them.
Maddi: Yeah. On that note, something else that I stalked on social media. I’m just going to read this out to you because again, this is. I think. I think this is what you’re talking about. It’s the idea of, your feelings. But I could never do this. I could never put it into these words, but underneath what you say, and it’s really deep. So you’re right. If I read this out, read it. All right. Personally, adversity made me the man I am today. And, what was meant to bring out the worst in me instilled a strength inside that works for me.
Jourdan: Yeah.
Maddi: Even though I was raised on these dirty streets surrounded by guns, drugs, murder, by early B, I felt something inside I yearned to search the peace yeah I’ve been at the lowest of lows felt worthless, weak I’ve been as high as a kite in the sky the word is free, yeah until we embrace ourselves inside internally will be forever seeking outside validation the concerns are deep. And then the chorus, deep in it. I nearly cried when I watched this last night. And then, I’m healing let’s not get side tracked I’m healing I’m healing from so many addictions I’m healing I’m healing from PTSD I’m healing; I’m healing from an impulsive condition I’m healing so if you ain’t about building up this community, then please leave us. We’re healing.
Jourdan: Yeah, I love that. Yeah.
Maddi: Yeah, talk to me about that. Where did that come?
Jourdan: So that’s a spoken word piece, obviously, called Healing and that’s just talking about just going through the internal battles, you know what I’m saying? Like, a lot of. A lot of us, especially where I’m come from, like, we. We mask things up. We put on a brave face even when we’re going through something in it. And. And I feel like we. Well, me personally, I used to live for the outside, for the outside world. So it was an image, really. I won’t really be my true self. So I realised over some, over the years that, it’s internally first, you know, like the internals reflect your externals, you know what I’m saying? And, Yeah, so for me, that piece was just talking about just getting our insides and our mind right, and controlling our emotions and then it will lead to a better reality in the world that we’re living in, you know what I’m saying? So it’s just talking about that, like, just honing in and being vulnerable and just honing in on being like, you know, our experiences that we’ve lived and that we’ve seen and experienced. We don’t have to identify by that, you know what I’m saying? We don’t have to be that because we’ve. We’ve experienced that. You know, it’s deeper than that, you know what I’m saying? So that was just me saying, yeah, I’m. I’m healing from what I’ve been through. And this is what it is it is. Like, I’m very impulsive, like, you know, I mean, I will, like, have an idea and I’ll be on a plane to Mexico, like, just quickly, like the next day, you know. I mean, that’s my type of thing. Like, you know, I mean, it’s just being aware of that, being aware of myself, emotional intelligence and being aware of how I think, the patterns, how I feel, and it’s just passing init. Everything. Like the emotions are temporary. So and it’s easy for me to say that now, but at a time where I couldn’t. I didn’t know what was going on. You know what I mean? Like, I could just. It was like, what’s happening to me? Why do I feel. Why am I. Why is. Why do I get these urges? Why am I. You know what I mean? Why am I chasing. Why am I chasing something? And it felt like a chase, you know what I’m saying? Instead of just sitting in it, embracing it and, witnessing it, I’m watching it go past. Because life, obviously, life is life in it. Like, there’s ups and there’s downs. We have to. We can’t fight any of them, you know what I’m saying? We have to sit and embrace, you know what I’m saying?
Orlaith: Yeah, I Do.
Maddi: And what about, Talk a bit about the Addiction, song. But then also because you kind of brought it into that little piece of spoken word as well. Where does that fit into mental health for you, do you think?
Jourdan: Yeah, addictions, the song. Yeah, basically. That was me again. I talk about the chase in it. Like that was me.
Orlaith: Yeah, the chasing. That sounds like something you’re really trying to understand.
Jourdan: Yeah, the chase. So for me it was. I was. I’m a gambler. You know what I mean? So I would be. Anyway, it got so bad. Like it weren’t even about the money. I’d win. I’d win those times I win. But it weren’t a good. It weren’t enough. It weren’t enough for me. So it’s deeper than now. Just the money. So I’m not in it for the money. What is actually going on physically with me? Like, you know what I’m saying? So.
Orlaith: Yeah.
Jourdan: Yeah. So the gambling thing was. I was.
Orlaith: So it’s more about the feeling, the urge. The urge of, like the excitement.
Jourdan: It got that bad for me. It was like the. The thoughts and the chances of winning. Not knowing if I’m gonna win was better than the win.
Orlaith: Ah.
Jourdan: Do you understand that?
Orlaith: Yeah, absolutely. The risk. Sometimes it’s the risk makes people feel alive.
Jourdan: Yeah. And this is what it was. And that risk took over my life. Like I’m telling you, I was in the casino at 11am. I was phoning a casino. Like, yeah. Are you open? Is the table open? And I’ve got work, but I’m missing work to spend, to take that risk and to chase that urge, you know what I’m saying? And this was happening frequently, you know what I mean? Like we had gambling houses in the middle of St. Anne’s there till 6 in the morning. They still run to this day. You know what I mean? Six in the morning, like most nights, it’s mad.
These illegal casinos. Like there’s, there’s so much of the mandam in there. Just there. And it’s just like a trance. It’s a trance. Like, you know, I mean, people are locked in there. It’s crazy. It’s a crazy world.
Orlaith: People who have a lot of chaos. So you talked about coming from chaos as a young person. Sometimes if you can do one thing where you get a real focus, a real high. It, it grounds you.
Jourdan: Yeah.
Orlaith: And, in some ways it helps you cope in the chaos.
Jourdan: Yeah.
Orlaith: So some people who’ve talked about addiction or you know, risk taking behaviours, even though it’s scary and it’s bad for you they find it comforting.
Jourdan: 100%
Orlaith: So it’s this weird thing of it’s a safe space, but I know it’s bad for me.
Jourdan: Yeah.
Orlaith: And then that’s where the tricky thoughts come in, isn’t it?
Jourdan: Yeah. And that’s say going off that, that, that’s because it’s not illegal. So it’s so easy to fall into. It’s not illegal like, you know what I mean?
Orlaith: I can, I can do it on your phone.
Jourdan: I could do it all the slots, the online. I had to ban myself like from all of them. But yeah, because it’s not illegal. Like, like you’re saying it’s a safe space, isn’t it? Like you’re saying, like it feels like.
Maddi: There’s nothing wrong with it almost.
Jourdan: Nothing wrong with it. Like, you know, I’m not hurting anyone.
Maddi: I’m not hurting anybody. Yeah.
Jourdan: I’m just minding my business and I’m doing it. But we are hurting someone, we’re hurting ourselves. Because as, again, as I’m saying about the healing spoken word piece, that’s what I’m saying. Like where me personally, I was hurting myself by knowing this, by knowing I’m creating a false narrative. I’m creating a false safe space. Like I know this ain’t good for me, but I’m still doing it. But now I’m trying to hide behind the fact that, oh, I’m not hurting anyone. This is, this is okay. You know what I’m saying? So it’s a rabbit hole. It’s deep. It’s a deep rabbit hole.
Maddi: So what for you, what were you hiding from? What were you running from?
Jourdan : Ah, it’s still a, it’s a great question and I don’t think I’ve even got the answers to this day. But I’ve just got to this point where I can separate myself from certain environments. You know, I mean like, like again, I’m not fully, I’m not fully healed. I’m not fully healed.
Orlaith: You’re healing.
Jourdan: Yeah.
Orlaith: Active.
Jourdan: Yeah. It’s just, I’m just part now where I can slow it down, I can slow it down, you know what I mean? And, and that’s a good question because I’ve got to, I’ve got to look at myself and, and ask that, what is it? What, what, why, why have I delved into this, you know, into this rabbit hole? And now I need it, now I need it. Like I need it, you know what I’m saying? And it’s crazy.
Maddi: Just to kind of bring a bit of psychology into it. So, there’s a lot of research around addiction. Obviously, it’s a massive, it’s a massive area in psychology, isn’t it? Because it costs people so much money. It’s one of the biggest contributors to male suicide. So men who kill themselves are often, are often gamblers. And part of that is because it’s not necessarily the gambling itself, it’s the hiding. So you know, you were talking about the dark rooms in there, you know, like there are, I guess men who have families who’ve got wives and children where they might be spending all their salary on this. And then you get in debt and then you have to do stuff to repay that debt etc, and often, you know, when, although you might not be hurting anyone, you know that it’s wrong. So you won’t tell somebody, tell people.
Jourdan: Yeah, yeah.
Maddi: A lotof the research around gambling is about, what we call dopamine. I don’t know if you’ve heard of that before. It’s one of our chemical reactors in our brain that we, that scientists and researchers think is activated by risk taking. So it’s similar for drug addiction, alcohol addiction, all of those. We get, when we get dopamine, when it’s released in our brain, we.
Jourdan: Want more, it feels good.
Maddi: Feels good. We want more. It elevates the chase and that chemistry.
Orlaith: That makes you feel the chase.
Maddi: So once you’ve activated a dopamine loop in your brain, that something satisfies you. It’s very, very hard then to get out of it.
Jourdan: Yeah.
Maddi: The reasons for getting into it are one thing and that’s where you need to do the work. I guess in the therapy. I’m thinking about what’s the chase, what’s my need here, what’s lying underneath? But then the actual dopamine pathway is the hardest thing to get out of because you’ve created it in your brain.
Jourdan: Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, you kind of stuck in it.
Maddi: Once it’s there, it’s. Yeah, it’s there because your body is then telling you it’s not just mind, it’s your whole physical being telling you that you need it.
Jourdan: You need to do this.
Maddi: Come on, like, give me more.
Jourdan: I’m not gonna lie. I was in the club the other night. My mate had his birthday, and then a couple of the lads that was that in them environments, what I’m talking about, they roll with their cards. They’ve got the cards in their pocket. We was in the club playing poker.
Orlaith: Wow.
Jourdan: While we’re on a night out. So this is what I’m trying to say, what you’re saying there is that, like, it’s explaining the dopamine like, you know what I mean? We needed that urge. Like, I could be on a night out, with our partners and that, but we’re in a little corner in a club playing poker, for little money. But it’s, it’s a disease. It’s a disease. You know what I’m saying?
Orlaith: But the way that you talk about it, you sound like you understand it quite well, and you sound like you may be in a different place now than you were.
Jourdan: Yeh 1000.
Orlaith: So what did you do? How did you move from being in it, to you know, being able to sort of stand back a bit?
Jourdan: Yeah, for me, it was hit in a place where it was nothing. I’ve lost everything. I lost my Mrs. I lost my, my household. Yeah. it’s life, though. Like, we go through it in it. I lost my money, I was broke, flat broke. And I just felt like a drug addict. You know what I mean? I felt like a drug addict, but I’m an addict init. Like this. That’s. It hit me. It hit me in my face, like. Like I’m in the casino with 30 quid, trying to flip 30 quid to 100 quid, like. It hit me, and I just had to sit down myself, It got that bad again, like, I’m because I used to play the online slots. I couldn’t get to sleep. I had insomnia. So I couldn’t sleep at night. I was seeing ace of spades. I’m seeing it. I’m visioning ace of spades or the king of hearts. And you know when you get like little flashes, like, that’s how bad it got. So for me it was like, no, I need to figure a way out to kind of control this and kind of have a little structure within it. So obviously I banned myself from the online slots. And I kind of just distanced myself from people who kind of invite me to them little gambling houses and that. And I just try to get different avenues of, like, releasing the dopamine.
Maddi: Okay.
Jourdan: You know what I mean? So writing. Like I said, I’ve always been a creative, writer, though. This is how the addictions and the healing things come about. Like the healing spoken word piece. It’s almost like a journal. It’s almost like a diary. So I would write about my experiences and then perform them in front of the camera and go and performer them. And then see that it’s resonating with like, just normal people. Like my inboxes, my DMs. It’s crazy, from people from France, people from India, people from Australia.
Orlaith: About your words, about the words?
Jourdan: Yeh, and they’re going through similar experiences then I knew it was absolutely. It was vital work. Like, it was deeper than just me. Like, I realised that.
Maddi: Whole piece of work.
Jourdan: Yeah. It’s a whole thing that’s happening to people. And people just giving me their stories. Like, yeah, I’ve lost £150,000 this year. I’ve lost everything. What do you. What did you do? Like, what. What was your solution? I’m saying. Yeah, gym.. Going to the gym was, definitely one for me as well. That’s. I have to go gym every single. Every morning. Like, it’s a ritual for me now. Because if I go gym in the morning, I’ve got the dopamine. I feel like I’ve done something. I’ve actually done something. And now I’m going to eat clean now because I’ve just ran 5k on the treadmill and I’ve just lifted all these weights and I can’t eat a Mars bar or some walkers crisps now. And just ruin it all, you know, I mean, so it sets the tone of my day. I’m happy, I’m smiling. You’re right, mate? Like, you know, I mean, it’s just, you know what I mean? So for me, that was it. That was me just finding structure in my life and just kind of switching it from the negative dopamine releases to try to the positive ones. That’s going to be healthy, you know what I mean?
Maddi: Yeah. Like an exchange, basically. Yeah.
Orlaith: It’s interesting when we had Simon on, from your video and you’ve got your dodgy pint of Guinness, which I already told you off about. And when he was on the podcast. We had a conversation about him and how he uses, you know, music and creativity. But, you know, it’s really interesting when we asked him a similar question, when you had your really darkest moment and what did you do? He said exactly the same thing, that he sat himself down, he wrote down a list of things. he started journaling and he sort of went through the list.
Jourdan: Yeah, yeah.
Orlaith: And it’s so powerful to hear you talk about that because I think for some people who are in a really dark place, if you say to them, you just need to sit down and write down a list. It sounds stupid, doesn’t it?
Jourdan: It sounds like it does.
Orlaith: People think like that is not going to help how bad this is.
Jourdan: Yeah.
Orlaith: So it’s so, so important, I think, to talk about the simple things, because you can, if it’s all gone to absolute pot, you can figure out how to sit down, take out a piece of paper and write something down.
Jourdan: Also going off that, I think everybody has got something that they love and that they do. You know what I’m saying? Like, everyone’s got, like, mine’s creative writing. Some people, I don’t know, some people like to just go on walks. Some people like to, you know, sit in silence. I feel like every single person’s got their thing, you know, I mean, so it’s just about tapping in, like you said, whether it’s major, whether it’s minor, whether it’s little or large, tapping into them things. And the more, the more you tap into the things, the more peaceful your day is, you know what I’m saying? Today I wrote, on my Facebook status, peace, over attention. Like, that’s, that’s what I want, what I’m after.
Jourdan: Peace. I want peacefulness. So Anything that brings me peace, like, I’m with it but anything that, that takes away my, my inner peace, then it, I’m trying to stay away from it. No, it could be, it’s that real, like, could be my brother. Like love, love you, bro. But if you’re doing something that’s not enhancing my peaceful state, then I’ve got to distance myself from it, you know what I mean? So it’s just doing them little things, whether it’s you like, cleaning up your house, clean, like gardening. If you like doing your gardening, do your garden, do your garden, because that’s what’s going to bring you the peace. You know what I mean? And that’s going to, that’s going to give you that state of mind and that state of. You know what I mean? So that’s what I’d say to people, like.
Maddi: Just do try and fill your day and yeah, fill your day with positive of what you love.
Jourdan: Yeah. What you love. And it could be little, it could be large, whatever it is.
Maddi: Yeah. And I also want to talk about who you love too, because another thing that Simon talked about quite a lot was how he’s used the people around him to, you know, for recovering in those dark moments.
Jourdan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Maddi: We’ve not really spoke too much about that. We spoke about like, the practical things and replacing the hit sort of risk and that kind of thing , but talk to me about how you’ve used people, how you’ve used the people that love you in your life and then also, you know, I guess have you ever had any, like, professional help or known anyone that’s had professional help, you know?
Jourdan: Yeah. So, yeah, so the people I love. I got two daughters. My two daughters.
Maddi: How old are they?
Jourdan: They’re 11 and 10. So, yeah, close. my eldest is going to big school.
Maddi: Oh, dear.
Jourdan: Yeah, big school. Yeah. But, yeah, my family, my mum, my brothers, my close friends as well. I got a good friendship group like, that are really, supportive and it’s a mad that what you said earlier was like, I was hiding a lot from all these people I love. Like, so they didn’t even actually know the extent. So when they’re listening to my journal, my tunes, they’re like, raw, like Jah. What’s been happening.
Maddi: Like they didn’t even know even.
Jourdan: No, you know, I mean, and that’s sad in itself because I’m hiding things from the people I love, you know what I mean. And the people that I’ve really got my back.
Orlaith: So did they know? Do you think they noticed anything?
Jourdan: They started to.
Orlaith: Did they?
Jourdan: Because I was again, that my close ones. I was involving myself in environments that I wouldn’t normally, you know what I’m saying? So the where are you Jah? Oh, yeah, I’m in. Yeah, I’m saying like, or they would see me with certain people that they know. Like you’re kind of. Nah, what’s going on here? So yeah, they gradually they realise and then obviously as I start expressing through the arts, they’re putting two and two together. Like. Yeah, yeah, that was that time when.
Maddi: Like I know what he’s talking about.
Jourdan: Yeah, that’s okay. That’s what’s been going off. Cool. He’s been doing this and that and the third, you know what I mean? So again, my friends, they’re heavy on the fitness. So they’re the ones that will say, yeah, come, we’re starting, we’re doing a run club 5k. Like they’ve got me on that, you know what I’m saying? Eating healthy, eating clean. Because again, food is another thing that like people don’t understand that we’re addicted to like the bad, bad foods and sugar is a, is a major thing. There’s many addictions, you know what I mean? Like in, in, in addiction. So like dive like across the board. It’s s powerful init and, and some people don’t even know that they’re addicted to things that they’re addicted to. You know what I mean?
Maddi: It’s layered as well. Just making me think about, I read this book once about addiction to and it was really interesting what you were saying about like getting messages and followers and likes and all that kind of thing. Because, I read a book called the Hook Model. So it’s about a guy who does like a user experience design and it was about the addiction loop to internet apps and how they hook you in.
Jourdan: Yeah, it’s crazy.
Maddi: It’s absolutely insane. And you know when, you know it’s like a four step model of addiction. So they’re trying to get you addicted.
Jourdan: It’s a design.
Maddi: It’s literally a design. And, and just that in itself. Although I suppose you could say, like, we’re all addicted.
Jourdan: We’re all addicted to that.
Maddi: If you put a post on social media, whatever forum it is, how many times are you going by checking how many likes you’ve got?
Jourdan: And that’s what I say in that spoken word is the validation. Like, validation. People are seeking validation in it. Like, yeah, like. And not reverting inwards. And that’s, that’s the key. We have to revert inwards to go out. but what we’re doing, we’re going, and it’s affecting.
Maddi: It, it’s affecting inside.
Jourdan: You get what I’m saying? So absolutely, this is it.
Maddi: And you get addicted to that, don’t you? You get addicted to that external validation.
Jourdan: Literally. Literally. Like. And this is it.
Orlaith: Do you think it’s any different for men and women? Because there is some research that it’s a particular problem for men’s mental health, the gambling. And I’m just. We had a bit of a conversation with Alex, didn’t we, about, you know, for modern men in our culture. It’s very important. You feel like it’s very important to be strong, to be the breadwinner. You know when you’re talking, even when you were kids.
Jourdan: Yeah.
Orlaith: You thought we need to show off. We need to be like, I’m the best. And then, you know, some of the things you’re saying about like the, you know, you’re talking the addiction song about the cars, the big boy.
Jourdan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Orlaith: And there’s something, yeah. It’s very subtle, but it’s like society is saying, like, you need to be the man. You need to be strong, you can’t be weak. You got to make money. Do you think that’s like a particular thing for men versus women or have you thought about that?
Jourdan: It’s a good question. And it’s a good question for me, I feel like that was the case. And I feel like that was the case. Men will think that they have to be a certain way, but I think now in 2025, I think, I think it’s a free for all. I think there’s these women in these places that I’m referring to that are doing exactly the same thing as the man. Not on an a bigger scale, but it’s definitely there. And even now I feel like. I feel like the men, the men are being more feminine. I think they’re being more feminine. I think women are in their masculine era where it’s kind of the, the roles have kind of reversed, you know what I’m saying? You’ve got women that are not relying on men and they’re doing up to putting up the shelf or they’re doing the car tire, you know what I mean? You know what I’m saying? So, so to go to your question, it’s like, what is a man’s job and what is a woman’s job? You know what I’m saying? Like, it’s, it’s. We’re all human beings, you know what I’m saying? So we’re all human and it’s like.
Maddi: I think there’s a question around maybe like, for something particular, like addiction, do men need to hide it more?
Jourdan: I think men would hide it more because of pride, you know what I’m saying?
Maddi: That’s interesting.
Jourdan: Pride’s a killer in it. Pride’s a killer. So, yeah. If I’ve just lost the rent money and I’ve got no Aldi money to do the shopping and I walk into the house, I can’t even look my missus in the face and say, yo it’s gone. I’ve just put it all on red. And it will. You know what I mean? Like, that I’m an idiot if I do that, you know, I mean, so what, normally happens, I’m I’m gonna go borrow some money off of Paul, and Peter, go back to the casino, try and flip it again, lose that. Now I’m in debt to these men. So it’s a spiral effect in it. It’s a spiral effect. And as they the house never loses, it never loses. Like it’s a real saying.
Maddi: Like, yeah, the gambling companies, they’re always going to be there because they’re laughing.
Jourdan: They’re laughing, they’re laughing. And it’s a scam. It’s a scam.
Maddi: Yeah. I suppose the other part of that as well is that if you’re a woman, you are much more likely to talk to somebody about Your feelings and about your problems. So I think when you think about what the underlying need might be around that addiction. Women are probably more likely to have conversations with their girlfriends about what might be going on or tell them about what’s going on for them. Reach out for help. Women are much more likely to reach out for help.
Jourdan: That’s super interesting though. Like that, that, that bit what you said about the. About why, why would. Why are we chasing, why are we gambling? Why, What’s happened, what. What needs fixing? You know what I mean? And it’s a good question. I’m definitely going to take that, take that, take that back and, and look at that bit. You know what I mean? But it’s, it’s, it’s interesting because that bit gets so clouded, like you’ve asked me that and I, and I can’t answer it because I have to peel back the layers. I have to declutter the fog, you know, I mean, I really have a look at it and it gets clouded with so much the chase, so much of the urge. It fogs the plate, it fogs the mind. So yeah, it’s interesting.
Maddi: I think it’s because there’s two sides to it. You’ve got the behaviour, it’s a repeated behaviour that is quite scientific because it’s based on chemical reaction. But then you’ve got like you say the reason and experiences the trauma. The trauma that’s underneath it. And there’s always going to be something that’s with you or happen to you that is going to be something that has then that need and I guess that needs, the behaviour could change. Behaviours have changed and more positive now.
Jourdan: Yeah, yeah.
Maddi: Gym, the food, you know, all of that is much more positive. But the thing that’s driving that or underneath it and your experiences in life that kind of is taking you there in the first place is I guess, where the work needs to be done.
Jourdan: Definitely, definitely, definitely. But to me now, it’s not a scary thing. It’s not scary.
Maddi: That’s what it is. It’s not being scared.
Jourdan: It’s not a scary thing. It’s exciting to me, like, because I’m on this, trying to build up my thing in it and just trying to be the best version of myself. That’s what I’m trying to be. So to see like the grey areas and to just be aware of the grey areas is a starting point because I can look towards what need, work, needs to be done. If I couldn’t see that, then that’s where the problem is. You know what I mean? And I know, like, for me, like, it’s deep because it’s not just gambling. Like, obviously it’s gambling. But there’s many things as well. Like, obviously, drink liquor like when I go to, like a function or party, like, I feel like I have to have liquor I feel like I need a drink.
Maddi: Yeah. To just, just enjoy yourself.
Jourdan: Even to have like conversation, like, with people – this might sound like, because we’re talking now and I’m drinking water, but it’s a Monday morning that plays a part, you know, I mean, if it was a Friday evening.
Maddi: I get that. Totally.
Jourdan: You know what I’m saying? So I need to look at that as well. You know what I mean? I’ve got it my thing’s so complex, you know, Like. I can’t. So I’ll have a cup of tea. Yeah. And this is mad. Like, I’ve said this to my mates before I can’t finish a drink, so I would drink, but I would leave a little bit at the bottom. And again, I watch a series, but I won’t watch the last episode.
Maddi: It’s something about finishing things and a fear.
Jourdan: I don’t know what it is, but seeing it through, not seeing it through. So. I’ve seen, I’ve witnessed.
Maddi: Do you have sugar in your tea, though? Because that’s the best bit at the bottom with the sugar.
Orlaith: All the sugar. Yeah, exactly.
Maddi: You’re missing out on life. You need to finish it, you know.
Orlaith: You know what’s really interesting is I think people who are musicians. Who can, like, speak music, I’m going to call it, like, like a language. I, think people like you have a superpower to help us have these conversations about mental health. Because I think someone who’s really in a dark place, maybe they feel the shame and they don’t want to talk about pride or they don’t know how to talk about. They don’t have anyone. They will listen to your song and it’ll resonate with them.
Jourdan: Yeah.
Orlaith: And you were just talking about the buzz that you get from that. So like some, you said someone from like France or Europe has messaged you and said, I’ve done this and what have you done? And I just think some of those people would never be able to get to the point of I’ll go see a psychologist. And actually, there’s a huge space where creativity and mental health, there’s meaningful work to be done.
Jourdan: Yeah. It can merge.
Orlaith: And it sounds like you’re, you’re really stepping into that.
Jourdan: I’m stepping into that because I believe again, remember because for my job, my normal job, I do youth work. So I run a youth club and we get like over 150 young people in there. So I believe I’ve got a responsibility as an artist. So if I’ve got people like listen, taking my word for gospel, then it has to be upliftment. I can’t, I can’t talk negativity. I can’t be tearing down the community because if I’ve got 100 kids talking about gang violence or they want to do this, that and the third on a negative base, on a negative vibe, on my word, that’s not it. Like, you know what I’m saying?
So it’s about uplifting people and just trying to, trying to gauge people to be the best version of themselves and, and unapologetically to be that person and just being ourself and being vulnerable. It’s not a bad thing. Like, you know, I mean being vulnerable. There’s a beauty in being vulnerable, you know what I’m saying? Like I’m being totally honest as well, like we’re human. Like we’re like it’s, it’s deep. Like we’re human init. It’s all right. It’s okay to not be okay sometimes. Like you can be down and you can sit in the downness and be okay with that. And you can be up and you sit in the upness and be okay with that. So for me again, as an artist I’ve got to definitely, this is my personal perspective on it. I have to talk life into people, you know what I’m saying? And, and that’s just ah, how ah, I work now, you know what I mean?
Orlaith: It’s interesting. You were talking about being in a place where it was all on top of you. It was very dark. And you’re now in a place where you can talk about things and you can express it through music. What would you say to someone who’s still in that dark place? So they’re still doing the chase, they’re hiding things. They’re, you know, they’re not talking to anyone else in their life about it and they’re going down that slippery slope.
Jourdan: They’re in the dark space. Yeah. I would say to them, like, yeah, they’ve got to want it. They’ve got to want to change first. Because if you don’t want to change, then you’re going to keep doing what you’re doing in it. But yeah, if they want to change and they, they’re trying to figure a way out, they’ve got to, like, if they’re online, they’ve got to ban themselves from. The first thing, just ban it. Just press the button. Yeah, ban for 10 years on the online.
Maddi: Oh, you can do that.You can ban yourself.
Jourdan: Yeah, you can ban yourself. And then you can’t go back on there so that I have to do that. That’s banned. Just press the button, basically. Yeah and then banning yourself from the casinos, you know what I mean? That’s the first and foremost. if you’ve got anyone that you can, you can speak to, like your closest and just tell them that. What kind of situation you’re in. So that even just that speaking that out into the world is a weight off your shoulder.
Maddi: What about. So I think a lot of people. This is going to be the hardest thing around this, like, admitting that I feels so kind of stupid because I’ve got myself hooked in this. I’ve lost all my money.
Jourdan: Yeah.
Maddi: I mean, like, I can’t afford my rent. I’ve lost my missus. All of that. Like, that’s so. That’s really hard, especially for a man to be honest and open about. Like, what would you say about that?
Jourdan: Yeah, like, I say, it’s honesty in it. Like, you’ve got to. It becomes a point because, like, everything you just said, that was me, you know, I mean, and it becomes a point where life slaps you in the face. Like, I’m actually here. I’ve got no money. My missus is gone. My household. I’m, you know, I mean, I’m out here just on my own, you know what I mean? So life slaps you in the face. So you have to. Like I said, You’ve got to want to change for yourself. Not for anybody else. Not for the Mrs. For yourself first, you know what I’m saying? So, and for me, what I done was, I signed up to the gym. The gym gave me a different. It gave me a different focus. so, yeah when you go to the gym, you can get like that. Yeah. When you start feeling the ache, you start feeling the changes. And it’s like we’re saying earlier, it’s the dopamine release, isn’t it? So, yeah, go to the gym.
Obviously, I write, so I write how I feel down. So if people like to. You don’t have to be a rapper, you don’t have to be an emcee, you don’t have to be a poet. You can just literally write how you feel down. And again, it’s an expression. You’re getting things out of your head and you’re getting things off your chest into the open and that’s, that’s almost like a ritual, you know what I’m saying? It’s almost like we’re getting it off us. So we have to talk about these things. We have to kind of acknowledge. Acknowledge and we have to be aware of how we’re feeling and what position we’re in and then acknowledge why and how this has became like this. You know what I’m saying?
Orlaith: Yeah.
Maddi: I guess one of the things I really want to say as well, that if you are in this place right now, if you are in, you know, in an addiction, whatever that addiction might be, you’re not stupid. And there’s nothing wrong with you, you know?
Jourdan: Yeah.
Maddi: The behaviour that you’re engaged in is a symptom of something that’s underneath An experience that you’ve had or something that’s going on with you in your life. And you know, it’s okay that, that part of you is not okay. And, it’s okay to. You’re note admitting to something stupid. You’re admitting that you’re not okay. And that is okay. I think that’s such an important message.
Jourdan: It’s definitely okay to not be okay. Okay.
Orlaith: And you’re not alone.
Maddi: Yeah.
Orlaith: So there’s loads of other people going through it. And there’s on the NottAlone website, there’s links to charities, like Big Deal, where if you feel too embarrassed or too worried to talk about someone, you know, that’s okay. And, there are charities who know all about the ins and outs about this. You can pick up the phone, you can go online, you can chat and you can say, I’m, in this place. There will be no judgement. They will know exactly how you feel and they’ll know the things you just talked about.
Jourdan: Like you said earlier, like there’s. You’re not alone. You’ll be surprised how many people are going through the exact same experience. And just. If we could have the conversation and if it was a bit open about it and we can have dialogue, it would make it easier because you know what I mean? Conversation and dialogue, healthy dialogue, is good for the mind and it makes you realise that we’re not alone and we can kind of get out of this together. Like, you know what I mean?
Maddi: Definitely – it’s a community and it’s healing.
Jourdan: Like you said, you can’t segregate yourself into a darker spot than what you’re already in because it’s twice as hard as to get out. So actually expressing yourself and in any way that you can is good for. For the greater good. You know what I’m saying? So I definitely say conversation.
Orlaith: You know, you said at the start you need to want to change. I think that’s really hard. That’s one of the hardest things with addiction for the people who love you. So if you are watching someone who’s gone through it. So let’s say you’re the mum or the partner or the husband or the brother or the friend. And you’ve noticed some of these things. I think they’re struggling. I know. You just know there’s something going on. You know, I don’t. There’s something going on. What would you say to those people?
Jourdan: Yeah, so I’ve got a lot of them people around me. And it’s. Again. There’s that saying you can lead them to the water, but you can’t make them drink the water. So you just got to be consistent, man. You got to be. You got to be patient as well. Because again, it’s not an overnight thing. Like this is a thing that’s conditioned us to think how we think and behave how we behave. So you’ve got to have patience, you’ve got to be consistent and just always be there. Listen, you know, I mean, you’ve got to have an open ear and try and integrate them into a new way of lifestyle. So, like, again, I, like, I use the gym, I use the sauna, the music studio, So I would, if it’s my closest, I would know what they’re into in it. So I would say, like, you know what, come we’re going here for the day spa, soft lights, sauna, steam room, you know what I mean? And then they’re gonna feel something from them environments and it’s like if we do that more often, then it bridges the percentage, you know what I’m saying? So if it was like 80% casino, now it’s 65. Because we’ve been doing spa, we’ve been going studio, we’ve been playing football 5 a side power league, we’ve been breaking a cycle, its changing the patterns up. So I feel we have to lead by example. Like we can’t because we can talk to the, to the cows come home in it. Like, it’s just going to be words, you know, I mean, it’s going to be water for duff back. Yeah, I’ve heard it all before. I’m, still going, you know what I mean? But if we lead by example.
Maddi: I wanted to bring that in as well because I think for someone who’s a relative or a friend or especially a loved one of somebody who has an addiction, whatever the addiction is, what would you say to somebody who’s feeling like, why is this their addiction more important than me? Why can’t they not do this? Because they love me enough not to. That must be really hard for somebody to go through alongside somebody because they must think that, that gambling is more important than them.
Jourdan: Yeah, but again, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s interesting as well. Like for them to think that then they’re not informed enough on, on what’s going off. So, so like, again, programmes like NottAlone is why it’s very vital of these platforms to be available. Because it’s got information. Remember information is liberation when we know it’s not ignorance. So we’re not we’re not talking out of ignorance. So you know that I’m going, I’ve got a gambling addiction. I love you. Of course I love you. Like, you know what I mean? But I’m going through something here and you need to understand what I’m going through. But if someone don’t understand, they’re going to take that stance, like, you know what, like this guy don’t want to change, like he don’t love me. As if that’s more than me, you know what I mean? So it’s about information. Information can help us understand, overstand things and, you know, give us a bit more insight on what’s really going on. And when people, know what’s going on in more depth, then it becomes more understandable.
Maddi: Yeah, I guess it’s about understanding what’s beneath the addiction, isn’t it? And if you love somebody and you’ve got someone who’s going through this, it’s about being patient. Empathic, isn’t it? And like you say, trying to. Trying to not get angry about the behaviour but understand what’s underneath it.
Jourdan: It’s tough.
Maddi: Must be hard.
Jourdan: It’s tough. We can’t. It’s actually easier to say. But when you’re actually going through it, it can get frustrating and you can get impatient again, like you’re saying, patience is key and just understanding is key and just, Just chipping away at it. And before, like I said, if you can narrow the percentages down, just to doing other positive things, then gradually we can overcome it.
Orlaith: The thing you said as well, about be open and be honest with them, I think that’s really important and I think as well to really try not to be judgmental. I know lots of people who’ve been in a dark place. They’ve built themselves up to tell someone and then they’ve.
Jourdan: When they’ve told them, they’ve knocked them back.
Orlaith: They’ve got judgement. And for some, certainly some people who end up never getting help, a lot of people describe that experience. I did reach out and it got knocked back. So there’s something about, if someone talks to you, don’t feel like you need to fix it. Just think, I’m so glad you just tell them, I’m so glad you told me. Thank you for telling me.
Jourdan: Yeah.
Orlaith: I’ve got your back. And there’s something really powerful in you saying what you need to do is take them to the gym. You know, you don’t need to be a psychologist.
Jourdan: You don’t need to be words like, you know, like. Because that’s one thing that we as working with young people as well. Like, they don’t respond well to the preachy. The preachy angle, you know what I mean? Like, it’s about doing. We’re gonna do things now. We’re gonna walk together and do activities or just sit in silence or just. Just be here, be present, you know what I mean? And they respond to that well, you know what I’m saying? So. And that’s the same way human in it. Like, yeah, if I take you on a trip hiking and you enjoyed it. You enjoyed it.
Orlaith: Yeah.
Jourdan: Do you know what I mean? It’s an experience. So, yeah, I feel like we have to. We can’t just. We can talk, but we can’t talk too much. And the delivery has got to be different as well.
Maddi: It’s creating other ways to be, isn’t it? Like, because you. If you’re in a state of being with gambling and that’s your thing, that’s where you get any kicks from. Then you have to have other experiences that give you a similar. Similar vibe experience. And yeah, talking helps, but you also need to do it. Is the action doing? Yeah.
Jourdan: Yeah, it’s finely tuned. Like, it’s almost. You can’t even pinpoint it. But we have to look at it, man, deeper. Like I said, clear the fog. You know what I mean? Clear the mind. Take the emotional attachment away from it as well and just kind of look at what is causing this or why is it causing this for my, like, my dad’s a crack addict. He’s alive. I don’t really know him, but I’m just now I’m kind of – we’re conversing init.
Orlaith: That’s really important for people who identify and say I’m an addict to understand that a high proportion of it is genetic. And a lot of that is about. It’s not your fault.
Jourdan: Yeah. It’s definitely genetic because he is who he is. You know what I’m saying? But again, as I’m speaking, like. I try and as much as I’m going through my gambling journey, I still try and walk with my dad and try and talk with my dad and kind of just do other things. Take him to family functions where he’s been segregated, hiding, segregating himself, and he hadn’t been for years around his family. But I’ll take him to his brothers, his brother’s, I don’t know, birthday, or his mums, you know what I mean? Like, and it can, can feel normal again. And that normality brings a different space in his mind, you know what I’m saying? It brings a. Like, I like this. Yeah, my cousin. Wow. Yo is this your kid? Look how big you are now. Like, that brings a different joy, you know what I mean? So it’s again, percentages, like, from what the addiction is to normality if we can kind of bring it closer together.
Orlaith: I really like that way of explaining it, because it’s not about you just click your fingers one day and it’s fixed. It goes back to what you were saying about. It’s that balance all the time. And even if you’re still 40% in the casinos. Yeah, but you were 100% – you’re making progress.
Jourdan: It’s progress. So you’ve gone from 90/100% to 40/ 35%. That’s a win. Absolutely, And then before you know it, you’re at .5%. And before you know it, I don’t go to them places no more. I know a man who don’t, he’s despise them places, but they was in there religiously and they was losing a lot of money, lost everything, like, you know what I mean? And now it’s just like. Yeah, like, like, nah, mate, we don’t do that. Like, no way, if someone’s holding a function in the casino, because remember, you can hold it at little functions now in the casino. They’re not going because it’s, it’s, it’s a devil’s playground.
Maddi: I think as well, this is a whole other podcast, so I’m note going to get into it now.
Orlaith: You’re gonna have to come back.
Maddi: A whole podcast about, just the idea of generational trauma, you know. What you were saying about your dad. Because there’s loads of research being done as on in, babies who are being born with like, a genetic makeup of a trauma profile from their parents. So, you know, like parents that have experienced war or systemic racism or how that’s literally embedded into the brain and the genetic makeup of a child.
Jourdan: People take it on. People are born into it. Like.
Maddi: Yes. And then you have the exposure to it as well once you’re born. So, like, you would have had the exposure and adversity of whatever your dad’s experiences have been through. So that then adds to the trauma.
Jourdan: So it’s teaching in it, our parents remember we’re babies. We’re born. And then we taught. We. So we learn from nature, nurture. but yeah, so if, like you said, we’re learning from a traumatic experience. We’re only going to know traumatic. We’re not going to know truth. And this is why I say it’s about being the best version of ourself. Like, we have to learn that. We have to detangle the wires and learn what makes it tick. For us. Like personally, not my mom, not my dad, not my kids even. Like, for me, like, what is my thing? And that’s what I’ve had to learn. Like. Well, what’s. What I’m learning, shall I say?
Maddi: We’re all learning. None of us are there. Trust me. Like, none of us are there, are we?
Jourdan: No. Remembering ourselves though, remembering what, what. What makes it tick and what we love and what makes us be the best version of us in it instead of just delving into the rabbit hole of the dark side.
Maddi: Yeah.
Jourdan: And being lost in that. You know what I’m saying?
Maddi: Happiness is not linear, is it?
Jordan Blair: Yes. Serious. You know what I mean? It’s a journey, man, but it’s exciting.
Orlaith: So, Jordan, what do you do in your life to remind yourself that you’re not alone?
Jourdan: Good question again. So, yeah, like I said, I write, I perform, I connect with people in the community. I do a lot of community work in Nottingham. I like developing young people. Not just physically, but mentally as well, you know, I mean, the seeing the progression from A to B to C and just seeing them go from not believing and to believing. That for me is just shows it. Like it works. I like this. I like conversation. I like dialogue. I like uplifting dialogue. You know what I mean? Like, it’s Monday morning, it’s raining outside. I came in. I was on a semi diner. But you guys have gave me energy, you know what I mean? So now I feel. I feel up now and I’m gonna go walk in the rain and feel the rain, you know what I’m saying. So I just like. I like conversation. I like just being around people. I like. Sometimes, again I like being alone sometimes. So it’s just awareness. Just being aware of exactly where I’m, at in the present moment. And that answer that. To answer your question, that’s what I do to understand that I’m here and I’m present.
Orlaith: Thank you so much for coming in.
Jourdan: Thank you. Thank you.
Orlaith: I really enjoyed speaking with you.
Jourdan: Same.
Orlaith: You’ve got stories, but you’ve got really, like, practical tips for people as well.
Jourdan: Yeah, it’s good.
Orlaith: We discussed some heavy subjects today, so remember that you can find advice and links to support services on NottAlone.org.uk – you are not alone.
00:49:06
