The NottAlone Podcast
Real talk about mental health with Dr Orlaith Green and Dr Maddi Popoola
Series two episode one: Alex Young on suicide prevention, bereavement and grief
Episode description
Episode #1 Alex Young on suicide prevention, bereavement and grief
Content warning: this episode contains discussions around suicide and bereavement.
In our first episode of series two, we’re joined by Nottingham-based rapper, beatboxer and performer Alex Young, also known as Motormouf. Alex shares his personal journey of losing friends to suicide, opening up about the impact of grief, the complexities of bereavement by suicide, and the importance of mental health support.
Through honest conversation, Alex reflects on how these experiences have shaped his life and music, and how creative expression has helped him navigate pain and healing. We talk about the stigma surrounding suicide, the misconceptions that often prevent people from seeking help, and the power of speaking out.
Whether you’ve been affected by suicide or are supporting someone who has, we hope this conversation offers comfort, connection, and most importantly – hope.
If you’re struggling, help is available 24/7:
- Samaritans – 116 123 (free, 24/7)
- NHS Mental Health Support – Dial 111, then press option 2
- Nottingham & Nottinghamshire Crisis Sanctuaries – 0330 822 4100
Please remember to subscribe for future episodes and leave us a comment, rating or review wherever you listen to help us reach more people to join in the conversation.
We’d love to hear your thoughts on this episode and any suggestions on what you want us to cover next! You can get in touch by leaving us a comment, on our social media or by emailing nottalone@nottscc.gov.uk.
Remember, whatever you’re going through, you are not alone.
Transcript of episode
Music: Whatever you’re going through, I hope you know you are not alone…
Maddi: Ey up. Welcome to the NottAlone podcast. I’m Maddi.
Orlaith: And I’m Orlaith.
Maddi: We are the co-founders of NottAlone. We’re both also educational psychologists and we’re both parents. We are so thrilled that you’ve clicked onto this podcast to join us as we delve into all thing’s mental health and well-being.
Orlaith: Let’s face it, we all encounter challenges and tough times in our lives. So, we want to talk about these experiences in the hope it helps others and reminds you it’s okay to not be okay. No matter what you’re going through, you are not alone.
Maddi: We will be having real conversations about mental health. Some topics will be challenging and maybe upsetting. So please do listen with care.
Alex: I carried on not just for myself, but mainly for them. Because I know these people, regardless of their situation, regardless of how they went, I know that they would want me to carry on for them and do what I’m doing.
Maddi: Ey up and welcome back. It’s series two of the NottAlone podcast. Welcome back, everybody. We have got quite a serious topic that we’re talking about today, but one that’s extremely important.
Orlaith: Yeah, hi everybody, it’s Orlaith here joining Maddi and our special guest who we’ll introduce shortly. We want to talk today a bit about raising awareness about suicide prevention. So, we’re going to talk about suicidal thoughts, experiences of suicide and being someone who has been bereaved by suicide. So, there’s a lot of heaviness today, but we’re hoping that in sharing experiences we’ll bring hope, we’ll bring ideas, and we will help people feel like they can have conversations, they can check in with people and ultimately that we will prevent people taking action to take their own life. And we wanted to really welcome our special guest today. Alex.
Maddi: Welcome, Alex. Alex Young, AKA Motormouf.
Alex: Hello there, hey.
Maddi: How’s it going?
Alex: Good, thank you. Thank you for having me.
Maddi: Thank you so much for being with us. Pertinent subject, because it is World Suicide Prevention Day on the 10th of September. And yeah, as Orlaith said, heavy, heavy topic to be talking about, but one that’s absolutely vital. One in five people have suicidal thoughts in the UK and suicide is the biggest killer of men in the UK between a certain age.
Orlaith: Particularly young men.
Maddi: We’ve got Alex here today who’s got his own, personal experiences through three friends that have died by suicide. But before we start the conversation, let’s just talk a little bit about you, Alex, like talk to us about yourself and what you do we know Alex through the work that he does with us for NottAlone Live? So, Alex comes to do beatbox, workshops for us every year since the beginning of NottAlone Live. Talk to us a little bit, just about, yourself as a musician and the things that you do.
Alex: Yep. My name is Alex Young. I go by Motormouf. I have been a, performing musician since the age of 16. I’m 33 now, so gone quick. But yeah, I perform, and teach beatboxing, rapping and host events and things like that. It’s really interesting to be, here in the old library. I used to be in a band many moons ago called Just James.
Maddi: Did you?
Alex: Yeah, yeah, we played this. We played a gig here back in like 2012, I believe it was.
Orlaith: In the old library, in Mansfield?
Alex: Yeah. In the theatre room. Yeah, yeah.
Orlaith: Just next door.
Alex: Yeah, yeah. When I was coming, I was like, oh, the old library. Yeah. It rang a massive bell. And I also did a recording session here about 10 years ago with a band called Jallo, this little like, jazz, jazz thing. So, yeah, there’s a lot of history here. So, it’s good to be back, you know, and interesting to be here under these circumstances as well. And it’s bringing back a lot of, a lot of memories, I guess, also with my music as well, with, a lot of the things I kind of talk about with my lyrics, my kind of like, lyrical content can vary. It’s got a very wide range of topics and subjects and things like that. But a lot of the time, I get to like, conscious, poetic kind of styles and I do kind of talk about like, you know, like, life, death, or spirituality, things of, things of that kind of nature. So, yeah, I think it’d be quite fitting, to maybe bring this into this, into this conversation today.
Orlaith: Yeah. So, so a lot of the work that you do, so you express yourself through your art, but you do a lot of work with young people and around sort of positive mental health and engagement, don’t you?
Alex: Yeah.
Orlaith: Why did you get into that area of work? You know, what draw, drew you into. I want to work with young people. I want to talk about mental health.
Alex: Well, actually rooted back when I was about 17, 18, I used to do work with the YMCA. They hired me to do like, teaching, like, you know, unprivileged, kids and young adults, like, beatboxing and things of that and ways to express themselves in different ways. And we’d also like do this thing where we’d all get these kids in to come in, like in different groups. So, for example, I’d be teaching beatboxing, someone else would be teaching them like breakdancing, someone would teach them how to like DJ or rap. And then the end of the year would get them in to do a showcase and perform it in front of their parents and things like that. And yeah, so it’s always been an interest just from that leeway from the YMCA. And then eventually from that experience, people kind of got word about it and they asked me if I wanted to do workshops and festivals and things like that. And I think at first for me it was just kind of like just teaching kids music, you know what I mean? And then getting them that kind of thing. But I also remember, a little claim to fame here. So, in 2010, I was doing these workshops for the showcases, but there was also like this young band that would come in and they were doing like indie cuts. So, they were doing covers of Arctic Monkeys and bands like that. And the singer in this band was 15-year-old Jake Bugg.
Maddi: Wow.
Alex: Singer Jake Bugg from Nottingham. And I remember, like, so he didn’t do anything with the beatbox or anything, but he’d come down to these sessions and practise with his band and things like that. Jake would come in and he was, he was a very, very timid kid. Very quiet at first. And then the more he kind of started to talk to people, the more he kind of opened up a little bit more. And yeah, I could see like the music was really doing him wonders, you know, I mean, I can like kind of see the progression of like, you know, him being like quite, you know, introverted and then eventually kind of open up a bit more and then performing. And yeah, it was really interesting. And what was crazy about that as well is that after we did the showcase a month later, I was hosting this open mic and he kind of like stormed in the room with his hood up. I didn’t know who it was at first, so I was like, who’s this guy coming in, takes his hood off. And he was very nervous. He was only like 15 years old, and he was like, I know I’m not supposed to be here. He was very nervous. I was like, hey mate, it’s okay. I’ve got you back. And this kid comes on stage, right? And there was quite a lot of people there, right? And Jake Bugg comes on stage, just him and an acoustic guitar. As soon as he started playing everyone in the venue just was quiet. And he did this song called Falling, which he wrote himself. And it’s just this kid pouring his heart out on stage and everyone was like, who is this kid? And you could see, like, he just, this young kid just like, pouring out, like, his, you know, his insecurities, his pain, his story, basically. A year later, number one album, you know, and it was just kind of like, wow, man. Like, you know, like. And I think it’s very important for platforms and community centres and other things like YMCA, for young people to come in and express themselves and because, you know, it could lead them to things like that. And I think it’s even more important now because, you know, there’s all these reports of so many schools around the UK, even around the world, even where they’re cutting arts out of the curriculum, you know what I mean? So, they’re not like, to learn about drama or art or music. And it’s like. And then, and then. And then cutting budgets for community centres for them to, like, funding for equipment for them to express themselves. And then these kids have got no way to express themselves. But also. And then they don’t quite know what to do, you know. And I think it’s very important to, you know, still have that, kind of platform for kids to come and express themselves and learn new skills and collaborate and, you know, and share.
Orlaith: Definitely, you know, we’ve talked a lot on the podcast about that. So, there’s a lot of, things, things in the media isn’t there about, you know, if you’re struggling with your mental health, talk to someone, reach out. But actually, for a lot of people, talking is not going to work. It’s not their way of engaging. And for a lot of people, they use music or sport or gaming or cooking to start that first, connection and sharing. And actually, when there’s an activity there, you feel more, empowered to share. So, I really like that example you talked about, Jake Bugg, where when he was singing, he was able to talk about how he feels and, and communicate that and share that. Whereas he might have been someone who, if you said, go see a psychologist in a room, in a clinic and talk to them about how you feel, they might have been like, that’s not going to work for me.
Alex: Yeah, yeah.
Orlaith: So, it’s great to hear that example. I’ve seen you with some of the kids at NottAlone Live, and it sounds to me like that’s the way you work. You sort of, you help people to get to a point where they can share and communicate. And I’ve seen you. I remember you had one group where they had written a rap song, and they were so nervous to share it that you said you’d perform it for them. And I just remember you sharing their work and they were so empowered just hearing their words being spoken, you know. So, I really like what you’re talking about in your work, which is giving children the confidence to communicate, to talk about what’s going on for them to share what their lives are like.
Maddi: One of the things that, one of our producer’s kind of said to me a moment ago was that talking about the conversation of suicide is that you, this is something that you feel particularly like you talk about with your friends a lot.
Alex: Yeah.
Maddi: So, it’s not a kind of, it’s, it’s not necessarily taboo within you and your social group. And I think that’s one of the reasons why we wanted to get you on here because, I think for a lot of people it probably still is. You know, it’s not something that’s, easy to talk about. Especially I think, if you’ve been grieved by somebody who’s died by suicide and, you know, somebody who’s died by suicide. It’s a really difficult topic, isn’t it?
Orlaith: Yeah.
Maddi: To talk about because the grief is complex, the feelings that you might have around that are extremely difficult to process when somebody’s died by suicide. And I think it’s hard just to, you know, it’s one of those things where you don’t really want to bring it into conversation because it’s hard, you know, it’s really difficult to think about a person who is so sad and so, at the end of their kind of point of happiness, knowing what to do. It’s so sad, isn’t it, to think that somebody’s then going to take their own life. It’s quite, it still feels quite an extreme, well, it is a really extreme thing to do. But it’s something that you kind of feel like you do talk about. So, I’m really interested in that, I guess. And is that, do you think, because you’ve, you’ve experienced this quite a lot, is it, you know, what, what’s that about for you?
Alex: I mean, I think the thing is, with me, I’ve always been quite a, ah. Even as a kid, I’ve always been quite a sensitive person. And I’ve always just wanted to make sure people are okay. And I always want to make friends, and everyone gets along and things like that. And I think that’s just how I was raised and like. But I, I, that was just kind of my neutral mentality and just my, my, my natural kind of, like, behaviour. So, when I have had friends who have, like, lost, like, lost friends, like, before I experienced these kind of things, even though it was like, new territory for me, I was still able to listen and be there for them and like, hear this, to hear their side of the story and hear the relationship with these people and all that.
Maddi: People who were struggling with their mental health, you mean?
Alex: Yeah. Or just like, there’ve been points. I remember, like, this is like years ago. It was at New Year’s Eve. I was about to go into the New Year’s, into 2020, no, into 2014, and a friend of mine just, you know, we were just out having a good time and then out of nowhere he started to cry. And I was like, hey, what’s going on, man? And he was. Oh, I’m sorry. I’m just thinking about my friend who, passed away, death by suicide, a, couple years beforehand. And I had no idea. I was friends with this person for about a year, but, like, I had no idea that happened. But, like, I comforted him. He told me about how much he loved him and things like that. And then they made me think, okay, like, now I know that about you. I can also keep a lookout for you, like, for that. So, you know, if it was to happen again, and they’ll be like, you know, if you want to talk to me, you can do at any time. My phone’s always on, you know. So, yeah, just kind of like knowing that sensitive, but it’s also kind of like, subconsciously prepared me for if anything was to happen like that, you know, and it’s easier said than done when things do happen, like you don’t know how you’re going to feel, you know, and, and people, people grieve in various different ways. You know, that’s one thing that I’ve learned where it’s, you know, people can, can, can retaliate to it, like instantly or maybe further down the line it will affect them or, you know, it’s.
Maddi: Yeah, yeah so, your first, I guess what you’re saying is your first kind of experience of, knowing somebody that died by suicide was actually through somebody else. It was seeing somebody else’s grief at first.
Alex: Yeah, at first. Yeah, exactly.
Maddi: And I guess that when you kind of know somebody who knows somebody who you know, has experienced this, or indeed you’ve experienced it yourself, it’s kind of, once it’s like, on your radar, I guess it’s because it’s something we all know about, don’t we? We all know that, you know, suicide happens. We all know that people do get to a point where they, they feel like there’s nothing left and they, they will kill themselves. But I think until you’ve experienced that, close to you, it’s not something that you would necessarily really try to get into how somebody might feel about that. Right. Because it’s not something we want to think about, is it? Let’s be honest.
Orlaith: Yeah. Yeah, you know, it’s interesting as well, because we were talking, I was thinking a bit on, the way here about why. So obviously suicide is quite an extreme act and it’s upsetting, etc. But why there is a cultural, you know, awkwardness about talking about it. And we, we three were talking about the fact that we, up until 1961, suicide was a criminal act. So, the 1961 suicide act was the first time in the UK where it was not a crime to die by suicide. And there’s, you know, previously people would have used the word committed because it was a crime and it’s where it came from.
Alex: That’s where it came from.
Orlaith: And so, you, you might hear a lot of people saying, you know, you shouldn’t say committed anymore, you should say died by. But actually, it’s factually correct now because it’s no longer a crime. But I wonder whether, you know, culturally people didn’t talk about it because of, you know, a criminal element. And I think a lot of the shame and the difficult feelings around it are sort of built into a history there. And there was a lot of secrecy behind it. And I don’t know whether that sort of feeds into the culture in addition. So, I think it is really important, isn’t it, to talk more openly and to use that language of died by or completed.
Alex: Yeah.
Orlaith: And it gives people that permission to talk about it.
Maddi: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think, I think the hardness of it as well is definitely linked to, like, exactly what you were talking about. It’s the shame and the guilt and, you know, some of those words that you were using. Because if somebody. This is what, something I’m interested in, Alex, as well, is that for somebody who, you might know, somebody who’s died by suicide, then when that happens, I’ve spoke to a lot of people who then have a sense of what could I have done differently or more. And I think when we’re talking about grieving for somebody dying, you know, if somebody dies in a car crash or you know, they have a long term illness, whatever, however somebody dies, it’s a very different kind of grief, isn’t it, to when somebody dies by suicide because of those feelings of why didn’t I know? Maybe should I have, should I have rang them today or yesterday or do, you know, and thinking about, you know, as a friend to that person, as a relative to that person, have I done something wrong as part of this?
Alex: Yeah, it’s those stages of grief, isn’t it? Like, and one of them can, can be guilt, you know, and being like, well, maybe if I didn’t know, if I don’t know, would I have done something, should I have done something and all that, that kind of thing. Some people who complete suicide have it already in their head that they are going to do this. There was, this music venue I used to go to in a place called Barrow-in-Furness and I used to play there quite a lot. And there was this woman who worked there, and she was the life of the party. She was so lovely. Really looked after me when I was there, you know, like, kind of like, you know, made sure I was okay, make sure I was sorted out. And, and then a year later, I got the news that she had taken her own life, and it turned out that she had been planning this for a while. There’s also these conversations where you have, and I’ll speak to certain people about this, and certain people might call it selfish of them doing it. And to a certain degree I can see where they’re coming from because they’re so hurt by their decision and you know, the, the, the, the pain that they have kind of left behind and the grieving that they left behind. But to a certain, to a certain degree I, I think, you know, it’s their decision and theirs only. I just feel like a bit more, you know, a bit, a bit of understanding within that.
Maddi: I think whatever you feel around that, whether you feel guilty and oh, you know, I should have done more. I think the point is all of those feelings are really normal. You know, it’s like it’s really normal to, to have those inner thoughts. So, you know, if you’re angry with somebody for. And again, it’s, it’s, all of this is part of that more complex grief, isn’t it?
Alex: Yeah, yeah.
Maddi: Because there’s so many different ways, to look at this, I think. And a lot of that is based as well on who you are as a person and your own constructs of life and death. Religion maybe. And you know, I, I personally, so, I want to, I’m going to just share this. I personally, I find it really hard to understand how you could feel that anyone can feel that, extremely, extremely low, depressed, like there’s nothing left. Like, like that is the only answer. Because the reason I feel like that is because I, I’ve not experienced depression. I’ve not been that low before. And I also understand that because that’s my position, that I therefore can bear no judgement whatsoever on somebody who perhaps is. Because it’s, it’s really hard to get a hold of, isn’t it, to think somebody is that low. Well, it’s for me, because that’s me and that’s my position. I think, you know, everybody’s different completely. But. And I think that’s where those feelings of perhaps for someone like me who’s never been in that position would perhaps see that as being quite, you know, something that was potentially selfish because I can’t understand it. But that doesn’t mean it is selfish. It means that that’s my, that’s my take on life and my, where I’m at. Does that make sense?
Alex: Yeah, of course. I think it’s, it’s, and the thing is with, with grief, like, like I say, people like grieve in different ways and people learn about it in different ways as well. You know, like I thought I was very similar to you as well. Like I’m not been like trying to help like people get to that point. But then I’ve talked to certain people who have, who have been suicidal, and you know, more power to them for still being with us still to this day. But they’ve told me about like certain experiences that they’ve gone through or like, you know, and that could be like through family or by, you know, certain harassment or just, you know, how life being dealt like a certain being dealt a certain hand of cards that life has given them and they just can’t.
Maddi: They can’t see a way out.
Alex: Yeah, they can’t see a way out. They can’t take it anymore. But have either spoken to people or maybe there’s been conversations I’ve had with people that have, attempted and it’s actually failed and then that’s kind of give them a new lease and be like, well maybe, maybe this is a sign to maybe reach out to someone, whether it was a professional or a family member or friends or like, you know, online therapy or something like that, you know, and, you know, they’re up. Because I think it’s easy for. Well, I’d say it’s easy for me to find out about people like this and be like, oh, like, give them all, like, these leeway’s and like, these kind of options to, to talk to people. Yet at the end of the day, it’s their decision whether they want that help or not, you know? Yeah. Yeah, because I think. I think I’ve been there as well. I think to a certain degree, people have been like, you know, when I have. When I’ve, like, lost people or if I’ve been going through something, I’ve been through a really low stage. People have been like, you can talk to me, and I know the support is there. But then there’s also points where, like, maybe I’m just. I don’t want to talk. I don’t want to talk about right now. Or, I’ve even had points where I’ve had a bit of, like, a bit of a bad day. And, you know, I’ll be at home, and I’ll be like, you know, being a bit of a, bit of a sulk. And then, I’ve got friends of mine, say, hey, man, it’s a really nice day, let’s go for a walk. Or let’s go, let’s go, let’s go to the cafe. Or, you know, just, just, you know, go have a chill. And I’ll be so in my own head that it’s weird because, like, I’ll know that I’ll feel better going out and seeing my friends. I know I’ll feel better getting the sun on me. And, like, you know, and there have been times where people like, no, I just need to stay home. And sometimes I think I have needed to do that just to kind of, just to go through what I’m feeling. Because sometimes I feel if I bottle this emotion up right now, it’s just gonna get bottled up, and then later on it might pop out, like on.
Orlaith: That’s really helpful, I think, because I think one of the questions a lot of people, potentially listeners, would have is if I know I have a friend or family member who is struggling, who’s having suicidal thoughts or is feeling really low, how do I help? And what you’re talking about is letting them know that you are there for them.
Alex: Yeah.
Orlaith: And consistently showing up. And the other thing I heard you say there is. Don’t worry if they say they don’t want to talk. Do you know what I mean? So, they might not be ready that day or.
Alex: Yeah.
Orlaith: But get them out, go for a walk, go and sit with them, go and do something.
Alex: Yeah.
Orlaith: And there’s something there about that, you said, that has helped you, and you’ve been in a dark place. I know the help is there.
Alex: Yeah.
Orlaith: So, you know, when I, when I’m ready, I’ll take it. I think with, with people who die by suicide, just going back to what you were talking about, someone who had a plan, I think there’s sort of two different routes, isn’t there? There are people who have a plan, and people can plan for a long time, but then there’s also people who, you know, take their own lives in the moment because they’re in the midst of unbearable pain. And so, there’s something about helping people to understand that things will pass.
Alex: Yeah.
Orlaith: Do you know what I mean? I think when people are struggling in the moment, sometimes support from others is, you know, it’s not that bad. Don’t worry. But there is something about saying, this is awful. This is horrendous. You know, this is your experience, but it won’t last forever.
Alex: Yeah. Yeah.
Orlaith: That’s an important message, isn’t it?
Alex: Yeah, that’s. That’s nail on the head right there. It’s kind of like letting people know, like to remind them. Yeah. What you’re going through is terrible. Your feelings are very valid and do what you need to do. But just as a reminder, like, I am here, we are here if you want to talk, we’re always here. But just go, what you need to go through. Because I’ve had it where I’ve had a bit of a bad day or whatever, or like, you know, like something like, for example, like I remember, like, I, lose, like losing my job, like, unfairly. And I was just, I was, I was, got really fed up and a friend of mine was like, it’s okay. It’s all going to pass. Like, I’m here. You’re going to find you got to land back on your feet. And sometimes, it’s a weird one, don’t get me wrong, I’m very, very, very grateful that I have friends that are there for me and remind me and its kind of wording it, where if you go straight into someone that’s not in a good place everything will be fine everything will be great, they don’t necessarily want to hear that straight away whilst they’re going through this emotion. I think the best way is to communicate, like you said, let them know that their feelings are valid and remind them that they can feel it. Whenever they are ready, you know we’re right here, because otherwise you know you have good intentions saying to people you know it’s going to be fine it’s going to be great, but it can also be slightly damaging.
Orlaith: Is it OK to ask you a little bit about your friend who died, and you know what happened to them?
Alex: This is a lad that I was good friends with, we knew each other on the music scene. I would see him at raves and parties and things like that or he would come to a music venue that I used to work at. We would have drum and base night that he would be there, and he had really long arms so you would look over in the crowd and see big long arms.
Maddi: Raving arms.
Alex: Yeh raving arms, like there he is, he’s having the best time and he was just such a life of the party, everyone loved him and he loved everyone you know. We would talk for hours about hip hop music and rapper s that we’ve seen and DJs that we love, all these things and during COVID, during the lockdown people that knew him all his life reported that he had completed suicide during covid. I think the pressure of covid, like, really affected him. I think because he was someone that was such a social butterfly when that was taken away he didn’t quite know how to handle it and I think there was other things behind this too. But I think from that pressure it was just enough for them to yeh…
Maddi: What I’m interested in, if you don’t mind sort of sharing, the kind of moment that you find out, what were the initial feelings, how have you processed that. How have you come to terms with that, I guess…
Alex: I guess instantly there was this like guilt, because I hadn’t seen this person in so long. And it wasn’t anything personal or anything like that, you know we just all get busy. And I think it was one of those where I wished I had spent more time with them, it wasn’t me thinking like I could of changed something, more like a feeling of being like wish I could have seen them again and hung out more, and yeh it was a shake for a lot of the family of the person, our friendship groups as well like that have known each other for years and years. Yeh it just struck a chord in those friendship, and just like yeh guilt for not making more time, and sadness for friends who I hadn’t seen for a while. But you know when we did meet up, we’d talk about the times we hung out together, the funny things we did, you know. Whenever I have had this conversation with them, it has been more of a positive reflection.
Orlaith: I like how you shared that even though your friend died by suicide, which is a really upsetting thing, you still feel okay to talk about the fun memories and to celebrate. And I think that’s really important for people to hear that because I think sometimes when someone dies by suicide, people feel like you can’t talk about it or, you know, you need to sort of avoid the conversation. There’s an extra layer of complexity to the grief. But it’s really important that you’re saying you still go through the motions of processing and accepting grief and then carrying that person with you in your life. Do you know what I mean? So, you move forward with them. You don’t forget about them. They’re still part of all. Like you were saying, you get together as a group and you talk about, oh, remember, we went there, and we did this. And it’s really nice to hear that, even. I guess what I’m hearing is that even when there’s been, a suicide, there can still be healthy grieving. There can still be repair. And I think that’s a really hopeful message for people because I think people bereaved by suicide have that extra layer of sadness. And what do we do now? Why did this happen? So, I think I really like those stories of you and your group of friends, you know, taking his memory forward.
Alex: Yeah.
Orlaith: So, we’ve talked a lot about what it’s like to be bereaved by suicide, what leads people to take their own lives. And I think you don’t always hear this conversation because it’s so upsetting and it’s so sad. But I think some listeners might be thinking you know, you know, it’s all very, it’s all very dark. You know, this is really, really hard. But I think what I’m hearing in the way that you and your friends operate now is that you can help people, you can prevent people getting to that place. And I think it’s really, really an area where you can bring hope, isn’t it?
Alex: Yeah.
Orlaith: You know, because I think, like you were saying, Maddi, the, the key factor in feeling like you have no option is that hopelessness. And, you know, that is one of the things to notice. And actually, all of the things that you’re talking about in terms of preventing someone dying by suicide are about showing them where there is hope of connection. Someone’s there, hope of options. You know, these are things, hope of things to do. I heard a story recently of, a young man who was feeling like he was at the point of wanting to take his life. And he called his girlfriend, and she was a couple of hours drive away, and she said, I’m coming to you. Stay on the phone. And she drove for two hours, and he stayed on the phone. And they didn’t talk. And she got to him and they. And he didn’t. And they didn’t. There was no talking. There was just a connection.
Alex: Yeah.
Orlaith: And I think exactly like you’re saying, Maddi, you know, and exactly like you’re saying, Alex, just letting people know that you’re there for them and being present with them, checking in on them and just showing them that there’s. There’s things in this world for them, can be what people need.
Maddi: Yeah. I think the key thing. So, through my own. Some personal experiences, some not. But being the person that somebody can pick up the phone to and, and being. It’s just a, it’s just a connection, isn’t it, in that moment? And, and I, I think there’s definitely something there as well about, who in the world do you have, who you can be your absolute raw self with and being that person for somebody? Because in your moment of I’m gonna do this, like, I’m gonna hurt myself, that’s how low I feel. There’s not many people that I would phone and ever say that to. And I think the key for me about it’s being able to have that person, isn’t it? And that connection, because that’s what. Ultimately, if you can ring that person in that moment and say, this is where I’m at, that’s the difference potentially, isn’t it?
Orlaith: You’ve talked a lot about that as well, Alex. Just saying to people, I’m always here if you need me. And that’s not necessarily that you need to be, a psychological trained medical professional. You need to know exactly the right thing to say.
Alex: Yeah, just a listener. Just a listener. That’s it. You know, and also with that, when you’re saying to someone, or if anyone’s saying to someone, like, you know, I’m here if you need me, it is also like a responsibility, I guess, you know, and sometimes you could say that and then they call you and it’s like, that listener has to be like, whoa, this is actually heavier than I anticipated. But all that needs to be done is for you to just listen. That’s it. Because, like, it could be, like, sometimes where, like, you talk to someone about, like you want to verbalise something to someone about, like, I don’t know, let’s say there’s like a problem at work or something like that. And then when you’re saying this, when you’re saying these sorts of things, sometimes as you’re saying these words, your brain operates. What, once you’ve, like, vocalised that, your brain is like oh, actually, wait, I think.
Maddi: Processing.
Alex: Yeah, it. Processing because you’ve got the opportunity to tell someone your problem as you’re saying this. If you feel better for getting it out and feel lighter. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And then your brain can go, oh, I feel better for saying this now. Maybe I could change my perspective. And, then you’ll give you. And they’ll also give them space to listen to the advice, if they get it from that person as well, and then they can collaborate that thought process.
Orlaith: Exactly. You know the story that you told where you were talking to someone on a night out and they told you that their friend had died.
Alex: Yeah.
Orlaith: And you never knew that.
Alex: Yeah.
Orlaith: So, a lot of people have those conversations out and about on nights out, in the pub, in the nightclub, because they’re more open. And, yeah, a colleague of mine was telling me, he was talking about NottAlone with his kids, and they had a great idea to take the NottAlone card out and about on nights out. Because I’ve also, some of you might have as well, where you meet strangers on a night out, where people are drinking and they might be having a difficult time, and they’ll tell you.
Alex: Yeah.
Orlaith: So, you sometimes get people quite vulnerable, don’t you? And I think it’s another way to help people, I think, is to be informed about the support that’s out there. Because a Lot of the conversation today has been about how do you keep an eye on your friends.
Alex: Yeah.
Orlaith: But actually, how do you notice people who are struggling? Because sometimes they’re just. They’re not with their friends; they’re keeping it quite quiet. But you might see them, or they might talk to you, or you might have a chance encounter. So knowing about NottAlone, local services like the Tomorrow Project, the Samaritans, where if you are in a dark place and you don’t have someone in your life you think you can talk to, there are loads of services out there where you can pick up the phone, you can text, you can email, and there are people who have talked to people who feel like they want to die by suicide before they know how to listen without judgement and to create that space.
Maddi: Of course, we don’t always know. You know, you gave your example of the woman that you knew, who you wouldn’t, you know, just never have known. But what, what are the other signs, symptoms? What might we be seeing? What might somebody be saying if they’re perhaps kind of feeling this low and depressed, that they might be thinking about taking their own life? Like withdrawal, for example. So, you know, like, perhaps someone who you’ve described, quite a few people who you’ve said, like the life and soul were very sociable. Do you think that’s someone who is perhaps, kind of feeling depressed, feeling not, you know, totally not themselves. Would withdrawal be a symptom, do you think? Like, them not coming out anymore, them not texting?
Alex: Yeah, I think that can definitely be a massive sign, or a massive potential sign of suicide, of kind of like. Just kind of like, you know, like slipping into the darkness a bit, you know, like, kind of like, you know, casting themselves out, staying inside all the time, not really talking to them, not looking after themselves, not. No, not eating.
Maddi: That’s interesting.
Alex: Yeah.
Maddi: Someone who’s not looking after themselves. What does that look like?
Alex: Like, you know, like people that, like, when you see them again, they look like malnourished or, you know, their skin colour has changed a bit, or they’ve got bags under their eyes.
Maddi: Perhaps, not washing.
Alex: Yeah, not washing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like. And these. These are things that I’ve kind of gone through as well when I’ve been a bit. When I’ve been going through, like, my depressive states or things like that, where people, people have noticed it. And when people have noticed it, I’ve gone, oh, snap. Like, and then I look in the mirror again, I’m like, oh, man. Yeah. I really don’t look good. I’m like, right, okay, what do I need to do to get out of this? Let me try just, like, clean myself up a little bit and just try to refigure out what I’m doing.
Maddi: So do you think when you’ve kind of gone into those places perhaps where, like, you’ve not shaved for a while or don’t, like, your hair’s a bit, wild, you’ve not been barbers all that. The way you just described it then was like, you almost don’t notice that about yourself.
Alex: Yeah, yeah. It’s hard to see it. You see it, but you don’t. You look at it, but you don’t see it, you know, until someone. When you get like a second, you know, point of view, especially when it’s someone that you love and you know that they love you, you know, and sometimes. Sometimes be a bit of a. It could be hard to hear sometimes, like, mate, you don’t look good, you know, whatever, man, whatever. And then later on you’re like, oh, no. Like, you kind of do, like this kind of like, defence mechanism where I’m like, oh, who are they talking to? A lot of times they don’t know. They don’t know me. They don’t know my life, which can be sometimes the case. And then later on it’s like, well, they do know me.
Maddi: It’s also like you slip in, though, and you don’t even know it. You’re almost like you don’t recognise it in yourself. And what you’ve just described there, then, is that actually even somebody just noticing you slipping can help to bring you out of that state. Because it’s almost like bringing its consciousness is what you’re talking about, isn’t it? It’s like bringing your internal state into the forefront of your mind so that you then can perhaps switch yourself to do something about it.
Alex: Yeah. And you know what? It can also happen on the opposite side. Like, you know, I maybe have, like, made like a post about it online or something and, you know, people have checked in on me and then like, maybe like a couple days later, like, I’ve shared, like a funny meme or something. Like, just kind of like, made myself a bit. Oh, this is funny. Let me show, let me show my other friends this. And there have been friends of mine, one friend in particular, my friend, Dave, AKA Disco. Shout out to Disco if you’re listening. He messaged me.
Maddi: Is he called Disco Dave?
Alex: Disco Dave? Yeah, man. Me and him have a massive funk and disco soul music. He’s one of my absolutes, absolute gems of human beings. Not only just because of music, but for this reason as well. Like when I was kind of like going through grief, but I’ve, like, losing people from suicide or losing people from, you know, other circumstances. And I’ll kind of like share these kinds of posts. He’ll be the first person to message me, like, hey, man, are you okay? Like, do you know what I mean? Like, I think he. I think subconsciously I was doing it as a defence mechanism without even realising. And then when he checked in on me, I realised that that’s actually what I was doing, you know, I.
Orlaith: Trying to be overly positive.
Alex: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was doing just a little. For me, it’s just a small thing of just sharing a meme. But he noticed that and was like, hey, man, like, what’s going on? Like, do you need to talk? But, like, you know, and like, at that, at that point I didn’t feel the need to say anything or anything like that, but I realised that that’s what I was doing as a defence mechanism. And then also made me realise that man, like, yeah, like, I have got people that are, you know, looking out for me, like, at any given point.
Maddi: You know, I mean, and that means something, doesn’t it?
Alex: Oh, hell yeah. Yeah, yeah. Excuse my, excuse my language. But, like. But yeah, like, that little thing just meant the world, you know, and you never know who you can do it for. So, as well as being a musician, I’ve been a bartender for just over about 11 years now. And I used to work at music venues and things like that. And there’s been quite a few cases where I’ve been on the bar and some customer would come in. I’ve never met them before, never met this person before. And they’ll kind of come in and, be like, hey, how are you doing? What are you having? And before they order a drink, I’ll be like, oh, hey, man, nice t-shirt. And they’ll go, oh, oh, thank you, thank you. This is one guy in particular. This is a venue called the Maze, Viva the Maze. That’s where Jake Bugg did that open mic. And, yeah, the Maze was like a cornerstone for a lot of people, like musicians, or whoever. Anyway, I was working in the bar. Someone came in, ordered a drink. I was like, hey, man, nice t-shirt. And it was like, oh, thank you, man, I needed that today. And I was like, oh, well, are you okay? And then we had this. And then we had this conversation and yeah, he was just having problems with, you know, is his relationship and like not seeing his kids and you know, work related stuff and all that. And I don’t know if this person was suicidal or not, but I know after that we created this bond from just talking, just this one little thing. And then he came into the maze all the time, come say hello to me. I introduced the rest of the staff, and he felt some, he felt like he had somewhere to come to and express himself and talk to if he needed to, you know. And that’s the thing, these little things, these little nice things that we can do for people, we have no idea of the power that it has, you know, because maybe for all I know that that one person could have come in and that they got that one compliment or they’ve got like, I’ve sorted them out like a little discount or something and that’s made him go, hey, you know what, I’ve had a good day today. Like, let’s see this through a bit more. You never know, you never know.
Maddi: So next question then. If I was a person listening and I’m having suicidal thoughts, I’m thinking about how I’m going to kill myself, or I’m thinking about when I might want to do that, for example, or I might be thinking about, who cares? Do you know who? If I’m having those thoughts, Alex, what can I do about that?
Alex: First and foremost, I would say to this person that your feelings on what you’re going through. Your feelings are, are, 100% valid and you have the absolute right to feel that way. And I wouldn’t want anyone to disrupt that feeling, by just throwing positive, just throwing nothing but pure positivity in your face, in how you are feeling right now. Feel what you need to feel, do not bottle it up and express yourself how you need to express yourself. But just keep in mind that there are people out there that do love you. Whether you think that or not, there are people that do love you. And these people don’t necessarily have to be family members, friends, work friends. It could also be other organisations, like NottAlone, for example, there’s the Samaritans, you know, there’s a lot of, of grassroot charities that are out there as well that you can talk to. You are thought of you are loved and there are people that are here for you.
Maddi: I suppose the thoughts in my head would be like, what if I say, you know, reach out to Orlaith and I say to her, Orlaith like, I’m really low, dude. I’m really low and I’m, and I think I’m gonna hurt myself. What if she’s so shocked that, you know, that would be my fear. Right? That someone would be so shocked or wouldn’t know how to handle that or they wouldn’t know what to say.
Orlaith: I think that’s a really good point to make for giving advice to people who are wanting to help. Try really hard to listen without judgement.
Alex: Yeah.
Orlaith: Try to, try to control your reaction in terms of shock or disgust or those kind of reactions or horror, you know, and try to be really, really genuine in, in the moment. And I think so, so, yes, we’re saying all you need to do is listen. But do try to listen without judgement and try to, you know, maintain your reaction because of exactly what you’re saying, Maddi. You know, it takes a lot for people to build up to the point to say that.
Alex: Yeah.
Orlaith: And sometimes if they don’t get the right reaction, they then withdraw, and they never reach out again.
Maddi: And I think the other thing as well is that you. I think someone’s much more likely to come forward with that information if they’re asked first if they’re okay. Which is, goes back to everything you’ve been saying about. It’s the checking in. Because if someone messages you, Disco Dave says, you okay, you alright, you’re much more likely to go, no, aren’t, not no then yes. But you’re much more likely to then speak, then say something.
Alex: Yeah.
Maddi: Aren’t you? Than nothing. You know, because it’s much easier to respond to somebody else saying, are you okay? Than it is to go, I’m not okay.
Alex: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s a good point. And I think with that it was like, oh, yeah, I’m okay. But thank you for checking in. I appreciate that. You know, and also just quickly going back to what you’re saying for like the person on the receiving end of that being like, I’m not feeling well, I’m feeling hurt myself, I’m gonna kill myself or something. For the person on the receiving end, I think it’s what the bit advice I’d say is just give them a platform to speak and just be like, okay, what’s been going on? How do you feel? Why do you want to do this? Do you want to, you know, do you want to come over? Do you want to come to my house? Do you want to have a talk? You want a cup of tea? Like, you know, just these. Just, just give them as much talking space as you can and then that way you get a better idea of like how they’re feeling, what they’re going through. And then, you know, you don’t necessarily have to come up with a solution straight away for them, but you’ve given them, we’ve given them a platform to speak automatically lets them know that they aren’t alone, that they’re not alone and that they can, they can have the power to talk and be, and to be listened to. So I think that’s, I think that’s one, just one of the many main causes why people, you know, complete suicide because they feel like they’re not being listened to and certain people that they have, they’ve gone to, like you say, might have not given them the correct, I’ve not heard what they want to hear. So, they automatically think everyone else thinks like them, you know. So if, I’m just saying to anyone that’s listening that does have these thoughts of, you know, harming or you know, completing suicide or anything like that, if you talk to one person and you don’t get what you need to hear, that one person is one out of a billion people that you can speak to, whether it’s your friends with family, coworkers, friends, school friends, you know, or just certain communities. You know, there’s, there’s, there’s always so many other perspectives that you, you can, you can listen to and, and there’s so many, there’s so many other positive, perspectives as well. You know, I mean, so you could talk to someone that’ll give you some good leeway into wanting to stay with us and not harm yourself. But you can also talk to someone else who can give you different advice to help you to stay and not harm yourself as well. There’s always a solution for everybody.
Maddi: And thank you so much for, I guess that’s quite a lot about somebody perhaps who’s thinking about taking their life. What would you say to someone who’s currently, so someone who’s currently lost somebody and they’re currently grieving suicide. Is there anything that you wish somebody had said to you very early on when you knew you might have first found out about that person who’s died? Like, what would you say to somebody who’s perhaps in that initial stage of grief of someone who’s died by suicide?
Alex: For a little while, I had counselling and this, my counsellor, I told him everything about all the losses, I had friends, I lost from suicide and losses from drug and alcohol abuse or accidental deaths or whatever. And it was in such a short space of time. And she said to me, Alex, you’ve gone through a lot in just a couple of years. How, how have you done this? How have you managed to get through? And my honest answer at that time was I, I don’t know. I just carried on. And I carried on not just for myself, but mainly for them. Because I know these people, regardless of their situation, regardless how they went, I know that they would want me to carry on for them and do what I’m doing. But that is just my experience and my experience alone.
Maddi: But that’s, that’s really important because you’ve highlighted something there, around, in psychology we kind of, we kind of call it a narrative. So, understanding your, your narrative, which may have been extremely traumatic, difficult, and if you’re experiencing a loss right now, of course, that, that is so, so, so difficult. The narrative of you and your resilience within that is really important though as well, because. And thinking about that, and thinking about, your own strength and your own resources and the things that you know in other points of your life when things have been extremely difficult, maybe a previous loss or something else that’s happened to you, what got you through then, and that is different. It’s individual for every, everybody and everyone’s experience. But drawing on that when you’re in an extremely difficult, stressful point in your life is actually one of the key factors that gets us through. So, you have, you’ve picked up on something really important. It’s the idea that, you know, if you are experiencing this right now and you’re kind of caught up and thinking, how am I ever supposed to get over this? You know, like, it could, I imagine it just feels so unbelievably helpless in the way that, you know, how am I going to get through this? And actually, you can, and you will. And that, that’s because, you know, you have the resilience within you to cope with this.
Alex: You know, it’s very isolating at first, especially with the initial moment. It’s, it’s, it’s horrible, it’s scary, it’s terrifying. And, you know, but then after a while, you know, you know, and when I say a while, a while could be a day.
Maddi: It’s different for everybody, isn’t it?
Alex: Yeah, yeah. You know, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve gone through like grief with that when initially it happens, and then I carry on and do my thing. And, you know, I think about these people every day. Of course I do. And, like, you know, it’s not a day I go by, I don’t think of them. But then one day, like, you know, like, I’ll be having a good day, nothing’s going wrong, and then I’ll just have this one thought and then bang, like, the grief just hits me and. But whenever it does, I sit there, and I feel whatever I need to feel. If I feel angry, I feel angry. If I feel sad, feels sad. If I need to cry, I cry. If I need to laugh, I laugh. You know, whatever my feeling is, I need to let it out, because if I don’t, it’s just gonna corrupt not only myself, but, like, my behaviour towards other people, you know, and, like, I need to just really sit down with that and express it. And, you know, it’s never. It does get, I’d say it does get easier. but it doesn’t necessarily mean it goes away.
Orlaith: Of course. There’s a traditional model of grief.
Maddi: I knew you were gonna talk about.
Orlaith: Did I just say what you were gonna say? A lot of people in sort of general pop psychology know about the stages of the five stages of grief, and it’s a linear model. You do this, then you do this, then you do this. However, more modern understanding about grief criticises that model and says it’s not linear. It’s exactly what you just described. It’s more like a zigzag. So over, over on one side you have healing and returning to your life, and here on the other side, you’ve got grief. And rather than just gradually moving into healing and then you’re done, you zigzag between healing and grief and that’s normal.
Maddi: That’s normal.
Alex: 100 per cent.
Orlaith: For the rest of your life. And as time goes on, it gets a little bit less and it gets a little bit easier, but it’s always there. And I think that’s really important, like you said. So, let’s say it’s two years on after a loss. And you’re suddenly. It’s their birthday, and you’re suddenly hit by the feelings of grief that you had on the day you found out that they died. You need to be kind to yourself in that moment. Do you know what I mean? So, you need to remember, I’m not, like, not making progress or I’m not back to square one. This zigzag is natural. And I love that thing you shared, which is, I sit with it, I feel it, I notice what I’m happening. I remember my friend. And then I can still do something else. And I think I really like that zigzag model more. It’s more real, it’s more what people actually describe that they feel.
Maddi: I think what’s really helpful about it as well is that, is that what we often also say, and think is that if you are potentially stuck in one of. So, you’ve got grief as Orlaith described, and sadness and all those awful feelings that come with that, and then normal everyday life. I think if you are potentially stuck in one of those positions all the time as well, that’s when we, we might think, okay, whether you’re that person or you’re worried about somebody who’s experienced a loss and they seem stuck in either overwhelming grief to the point where, you know, it’s all they do, all they think about lots of emotion all the time, or they’re almost kind of just completely detached from it and they’re just getting on with their life. And those moments of grief aren’t coming in, they’re not processing, they’re not feeling, they’re not allowing themselves to, to have those emotional experiences. Actually, that may be the point at which you need, you need to think about getting help. And I think, you know, there are lots of different, again, lots of different services out there for people who have experienced loss or are bereaved by suicide, and you know, go to NottAlone. Have a look. They’re all, they’re all listed on there because, it’s, you know, it’s not just about, it’s not just about the person that’s, you know, in that position and it’s about the people around them as well, isn’t it? And the impact on them. And perhaps it’s even if, you know, somebody’s attempted to take their life and you’re a loved one of that person, or there’s someone perhaps who’s self-harming regularly, you’re a loved one of that person. That’s still an extremely traumatic, challenging situation. And it could be that you need to get help because of that, you know, the impact on you. And that’s also okay.
Alex: Yeah.
Orlaith: So, Alex, we have a question that we always ask our guests when we’re coming towards the end of our conversations and today, I think even more so a really important question to ask. So, can we ask you our final question?
Alex: Go ahead.
Orlaith: So, what do you do in your life to remind yourself that you’re not alone?
Alex: What do I do? I Talk. I talk to people. and it could be like something that I’ve been going through. I, create, I write. I, do a lot of thinking. I’m a thinker. I’m a big thinker. But the main thing for me is talking. I guess a recent example I can give you. So, I went to a festival called We Out Here Festival, which is beautiful, by the way. If anyone, likes your festivals, We Out Here it’s such a positive, like just a festival of just pure love, in my opinion. Anyway, me and my, my, my, my dear Godbrother Jack and his awesome fiancé Preeti, we, went, we went to this festival, and we went to watch this rapper called Bashy. And Bashy is like.
Maddi: Bashy, like Bashy the Grime?
Alex: Yeah, the Grime MC. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you know.
Maddi: The Black Boys.
Alex: Yeah, that’s right. He performed that as well.
Maddi: He’s got a new album out, right?
Alex: Yeah, so that’s what’s going to get onto.
Maddi: Yeah.
Alex: So, Bashy dropped this new album, and I didn’t really listen to it. I was like, no, I want to wait until I see him live. I want to see him perform this. But there was this one song that he, he did it, like, reprises this classic hip hop song from the 90s, like the instrumental, should I say? And this instrumental, me and my late friend, Joe, may he rest in peace, we used to rap on that 90s hip hop, instrumental all the time. And I realised that Bashy had like, sampled it and made this song. I went to go see him live and, he had this moment halfway through where he mentioned that when he was 19 years old, he lost one of his best friends. And he told everyone to put their finger up in the sky. Like the index finger up in the sky if you’ve lost a loved one. So, I did that, and I was thinking about all these people and then he played that song, that reprise of that instrumental and I just burst into tears at that point. I was just like, yeah. And not only that, the people that I was with, you know, as soon as I burst into tears, these two came to my aid and gave me a big, massive, massive hug and was like, hey, man, we love you. We’ve got you. And I’m there in bits, like, ah, you know, like all over the place. And it was also because the festival also reminded me of my friend Darren and both my two friends, Darren and Joe. Cause it was also like, not only would they have loved to have seen this person perform, but they would also love this festival because it’s everything that they love about hip hop and drum bass and dubstep and jazz and blues and, you know, every. There’s all these things and all these elements that made me think of them even more. And then after that, me and my two friends, you know, we, went and sat down after the show and we were talking about pretty much this conversation we’ve been having today. We just put the world to right and that made me feel heard, that made me feel like I wasn’t alone, you know. And then from these situations, it’s helped me to encourage myself to talk to people on either side of the scale, whether if I’m feeling upset, I could talk about it. If someone else is feeling upset, I can still talk about it. And even if it’s, like I say, if it’s people that I know, people I don’t know, I’m always all ears because you never know what listening can do for someone. You know that one conversation that you had could change everything about a person. Everything, you know. I hope that answers your question. So, I went a bit of a waffle there, but yeah.
Orlaith: Thanks, Alex.
Alex: Thank you. Honestly, this has been very nice. you know, and again, I like to repeat, I just want to say thanks for everyone that’s took the time to listen to me, to listen to us, you know, and, you know, and a big shout out to NottAlone as well. And, yeah, and I’m always here, you know, if you guys need to talk to me as well, I know I could talk to you guys and anyone that’s listening, just know there are people that you can talk to as well.
Orlaith: Thank you so much, Alex. Anyone who needs any support from the topics we talked about today can look on nottalone.org.uk for a range of local and national services that you can talk to that you can get help. But also, if you want to help someone in your life, you can go on there as well and you can get advice on how to help them and where to signpost them and, and who to advise them to talk to.
Maddi: You’re not alone, guys. Thank you for listening.
Maddi: Ey up Notts and beyond. We want to take a minute to say a massive thank you for tuning into our podcast. It means so much to have you with us on this journey, but we do have a small favour to ask if you’re enjoying the episodes. We’d really love your support in helping us reach more listeners. Whether it’s leaving a quick review, sharing an episode with a friend, family or colleague, it really all helps make a big difference.
Orlaith: We discussed some heavy subjects today, so remember that you can find advice and links to support services on, nottalone.org.uk. You are not alone.
Music: Unlock that which I bottle up inside when I want to hide from everyone for my own protection When I spot the signs know I’m not alone and the answer there lies in connection. Whatever you’re going through, I hope you know you are not alone…I hope you know you’re not alone…
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