The NottAlone Podcast
Real talk about mental health with Dr Órlaith Green and Dr Maddi Popoola
Series three episode one: Girl vs grief – Ella’s story of bereavement, sibling loss and mental health
Episode description
Series three episode one: Girl vs grief – Ella’s story of bereavement, sibling loss and mental health
Fifteen-year-old Ella Mai Blower from Colwick shares her moving experience of coping with grief following the loss of her younger brother.
Leo was just six years old when he passed away from a terminal brain tumour four years ago, leaving Ella and her family devastated.
Like many young people, Ella turned to social media to find other people who had also lost siblings, but was unable to find anything that resonated with her. That’s when she decided to create her own TikTok account @girl_vs_grief, to share her memories and help other people going through grief and loss.
Hosts Maddi and Órlaith chat to Ella about her experiences, why sharing her story is so important to her, what helped her cope with grief and what advice she would give to other young people going through something similar.
Content note: this episode discusses some heavy topics around bereavement and grief, especially in the second half. Please, listen with care, take a break if you need it and visit NottAlone.org.uk if you need support around any of the issues raised in this episode.
Series three of The NottAlone Podcast is a special four-episode podcast series which explores some challenging topics, hearing young people’s first-hand experiences of grief, loss, eating disorder recovery and overcoming anxiety and panic attacks.
Transcript of episode
Music: Whatever you’re going through…
Maddi: Ey up. And welcome to The NottAlone Podcast, a place where we talk all things mental health. I’m Maddi.
Órlaith: And I’m Órlaith. We’re educational psychologists and we’re here to open up the conversation and offer a helping hand through different and sometimes challenging subjects around mental health.
Maddi: We chat to guests who offer their own perspectives on personal challenges, as well as professionals who share their advice. Sometimes these conversations can be tough, so please take care while listening and take a break if you need to.
Órlaith: This episode touches on some really heavy subjects around bereavement, sibling loss and grief, especially during the second half when Ella talks about losing her little brother. So please listen at your own pace. Pause if you need to and, as always, take care of yourself. Remember, if you’re impacted by any of the topics we cover, you can visit nottalone.org.uk to find advice and, support. So, let’s get started.
Maddi: Welcome back, everybody. It’s the NottAlone Podcast, season three. Órlaith, welcome.
Órlaith: Hello, Maddi. Welcome. Here we are in season three of the NottAlone Podcast. How exciting. I’m really excited to be back for NottAlone and to be talking about young people’s mental health again for this season three, which is really exciting, isn’t it?
Maddi: Yeah. And even more so because this season we are gonna be joined by young people. So we’ve got a series of guests coming in for different reasons, talking different issues. But what we really want this season is to be the voice of young people. And we’re extremely excited to be joined here today by Ella. Welcome to the studio, Ella.
Ella: Thank you.
Órlaith: Hello. Great to see you here and thank you so much for coming to The Old Library in Mansfield.
Maddi: We have a topic for today around bereavement and grief and particularly young people seeking support around the loss of a sibling. So Ella lost her brother Leo about four years ago, Ella?
Ella: Mmhmm.
Maddi: So, Ella, I don’t want to tell our listeners about you. I want you to do that, if that’s all right. So tell us a little bit about Ella, like your age, you know, tell us a bit about yourself.
Ella: I’m Ella, I’m 15 and I’m into musical theatre. I did a lot of work with Morato from Nottingham Forest because he lost his sister like I lost my brother. And I’ve started a TikTok account just to start to spread awareness for other people who’ve lost their siblings or just lost anyone, really, and just to make other people feel like they’re not alone so they have someone to vouch for.
Maddi: We love that. Thank you so much for being here and being brave enough to come and talk about Leo.
Órlaith: Thank you.
Maddi: And to talk about your experience of losing a sibling. it’s something that a lot of other people, listeners, will have experienced and the purpose of this is, as you’ve absolutely outlined really well, is that we want people listening to feel like they’re not alone in that experience. And through you talking about that, hopefully we can reach out and we can help some other people.
Órlaith: I’m interested, just diving in, you said that you set up a TikTok account. Do you want to say you know, what it is so people can follow you and what you do on there?
Ella: I will.
Órlaith: What you post?
Ella: Well, I’ve done lots of different videos. It’s more, I do loads of videos that are more relatable so they can see and it’s like, oh, I felt like that too, like, that’s how I feel. So they can, because there’s reposting and like, there’s loads of different things. So the number one thing I struggled with is you’re going through videos and it’s like, I can’t repost any of these. Like, why is everyone so happy all the time? So I started making them so they can start feeling understood more. Because that, as a teenager is already hard. You’re like, oh, no one understands what I’m going through. And this, I have found nobody. So I started making more videos. So there’s a couple, like, little relatable ones. There’s some, more just things I do every day. So there’s like, if I go to a Forest game, I’ve done some with Robin Hood, the mascot at Forest. So he is a great little, you know, makes the videos a bit more interesting. Also links to what I like and enjoy, for followers who haven’t maybe lost a sibling, but just want to see the account anyway, so it just helps anyone.
Maddi: That’s amazing. I love, I love the way that you are able to, I guess, reach out and share. I think what I’m hearing is that, is sharing, like sharing your pain and sharing the difficulty that you’re experiencing every day. Because I think people are scared to talk, you know, to talk about that and own it. It’s owning it, isn’t it? And saying, this has been really hard for me. Would you mind starting with, I guess, telling us a little bit about Leo, if that feels okay?
Ella: Of course. I’d love to.
Maddi: You know, we really want to, we really want to know about Leo and, you know, who he was and I guess maybe one of your like favourite stories about Leo, a favourite memory.
Ella: He honestly was the most amazing little boy in the world. Like he is so lovely. He was so funny and he was so empathetic. He was six years old when he passed away but oh my goodness his emotional, like maturity level was insane. Like I used to, I was super upset one day. This is one of my favourite memories just because it’s so like oh. But I was super upset and I think I was crying. I must have had a bad day at school or something, I can’t really remember but I remember him coming up to me at the end of the day and he just hugged me and he was just like, “I love you”. And I was like oh!
Órlaith: And he’s only six! Wow.
Ella: Yeah, I know. Or if you got dressed up and were going out for grandparents meal or something, he’d be like, “you look so beautiful”, so lovely. Such a lovely boy. He loved Beauty and the Beast. He loved Up, the film. Peter Pan was his like main thing. He used to dress up as the characters and used to like play. I used to, that’s the thing I’ve always loved playing because I’ve had a younger sibling so it was very much like if you play with me, I’ll play with you. So it was very like you play the game I want, I’ll play with you. And it was very like bargaining and as an older sister you had to try and get him to do what you wanted. So I really wanted to make some TikToks because I, you know it’s funny, it was great back then. So I was making loads of TikToks, I was like do you want to make a TikTok for me? He was like no, no I don’t. So I was like it’s really cool. Like so we used to make TikToks together. used to do little role playing like his games that he used to like, but they’re the main ones.
Órlaith: Oh that’s so nice to hear that you have happy funny memories and it’s, it’s nice that you talked as well about even on your account you post what you’re doing every day. Because a lot of people when they lose a sibling or someone close they feel like it’s not okay to be happy.
Ella: Yeah, that’s how I feel, like felt for so long.
Órlaith: Really?
Ella: I felt so guilty for feeling happy.
Órlaith: Did you?
Ella: I did. It was like oh, just I didn’t want to feel happy because everyone, when you talk to them they expect you to be sad. So I was like everyone’s got this expectation that I’m going to be super sad and I don’t want to talk to anyone. So I felt like if I am happy maybe I shouldn’t be. Everyone thinks I should be sad so maybe I should. But it’s okay to feel happy. It’s even better like, not, you don’t have to be happy all the time but as long as you’re experiencing like you’re going through your grief and you’re taking it all in, it’s good to feel happy at times. It’s good. It shows that you’re healing because you’re not going to be sad all the time and you shouldn’t feel guilty for feeling sad or feeling happy.
Maddi: One of the things that I wanted to talk about today was exactly what you’ve just said really, I guess, is the people around you like your friends because you know, you would have been how old? About 11, I think?
Ella: Yeah.
Maddi: When Leo passed away and I guess if you could almost like get in a time machine and go back to your 11-year-old friends at that time, what did you need from them in terms of how they could support or behave around you?
Ella: It’s really hard because it was a very young age.
Maddi: It’s very young.
Ella: And it’s obviously like year seven, everyone wants to fit in so it was very hard to make people, well not make people understand but feel understood. That’s like such a big thing. I don’t know massively. I think just being there, you didn’t have to do any like do anything or be super emotionally mature and just be like I’m here if like, just I’m here if you need anything. That would have been so much better just to be like, it just helps so much to have friends. Because I went through a lot in year seven too. Like I lost so many friends. There was bullying like it’s, it was hard in year seven. Not only did I lose my brother…
Órlaith: It was a very hard year.
Ella: Yeah it was a lot. But I think the main thing I needed was just a friend, just to contact me, just to, oh, you’re not at school. you haven’t been at school for a while. Take your time, we’re all thinking about you. Just little text. Cause I did take a big chunk of time off school because we were given a date for him to pass away until like oh, he’ll live up to this time. So we did loads of memories. So I went out school for a bit to do his final things and then he passed away and then that was like, whoa. So I took time off again. But just like, oh, you haven’t been in school for a while. We’re all thinking about you. I really hope you’re okay. If you ever want to do something like me know. That is a massive thing. Because you’ve locked in the house, you need a distraction. And not all the time, feel what you’re feeling. But you don’t want to just be sat there with nothing to do. Give yourself little jobs, do stuff you enjoy, go out with friends. It just helps.
Maddi: Yeah, I think that’s really helpful. It’s really helpful because, as you said at 11, do you know, a group of friends and say you’ve got a friend and their siblings died, I imagine you either think, I can’t talk about it at all, you know, because I don’t want to upset them, or I don’t want to, you know, make it worse or say anything wrong or those kind of things. But then I guess what you’re saying is actually you don’t need. You don’t need to really think about anything apart from just being, just being you and being a friend in that moment.
Ella: That was my main thing. I didn’t. I’ve had a couple scenarios where you. They’re like, oh, talking about your siblings. How many siblings do you have? Well, I have this many, but one’s passed away, like. And they’re like, oh, but you don’t get the nicest responses sometimes when you’re a kid. I’ve had some pretty bad ones to that, but they’re not. That’s the thing. You don’t know how they’re going to react when you say that. So I used to hate saying it. Not because I didn’t want to be made fun of. I didn’t want them to say anything bad. And me be like, I didn’t want to have to deal with that.
Maddi: Yeah. Totally understand.
Ella: It’s so vulnerable. And I didn’t want them to say anything bad about my brother because that is like, oh, you don’t even know how you’re going to react in that moment. So I was just. I got scared to tell people in case I did have to say anything back or I just wanted to be civil with everyone and not create more problems. But…
Maddi: Yeah. And, so you’re 15 now. I guess my question around now specifically as well, is the group of friends that you have now and the people around you now, what do they do to help you in moments? Do you know, do you have friends that you can say, actually, I’m having a bad day today and be able to tell them what you need? And what does that look like for you?
Ella: I’ve got the best group of friends in the world at the moment. They’re so lovely. One of them, even if I’m not talking much because I nonstop talk, as you can tell right now, just blab on.
Órlaith: That’s why you’re perfect for a podcast! We like chatters.
Ella: But she was just. If I’m not talking very much, she’ll just be like, are you okay? And I’m like, yeah. And she’ll be like, no, you’re not. What’s up? Tell me. And even if I say no, honestly, I’m fine. She’ll be like, no, you’re not. And then I’m like, okay. And then I tell because. And then I’ve got another friend who’s. She’s always contact, like, oh, you went to school today? Are you okay? It’s just constant. And that’s amazing. Like. And they’re so lovely. Like, honestly, I love my friends so much because they’re just like, oh, they. They are really emotionally mature, like, they are. And that really helps me because they know how they can. They don’t know how I feel, but they know what to say and they know. Do you not feel.. well, do you want to go on a walk? That’s my number one thing. If I don’t want to. Do you want to go on a walk and we can talk about everything? And I’m like, yes, I do. Thank you. And it’s just like, oh, you can come around to my house. We can. It just means a lot. It really means a lot.
Órlaith: That’s great. Sounds like you’ve got friends who, they just know that you’re not okay.
Ella: Yeah.
Órlaith: right? Because they know you so well. And even if you’re saying, yeah, I’m fine, they know that you’re not really. And they also know what helps you. So they know that Ella likes going for a walk, so I’ll take her for a walk.
Ella: That’s lovely. Honestly, that’s an amazing group of friends.
Maddi: Yeah, you’re lucky. So friends certainly now are, I guess a protective factor for you, something that helps you get through. Thinking back to that time when Leo passed away and also kind of the years following, and I was talking to your mum before, before we came in, so I know there’s loads of things here, but she was saying how amazing you are at kind of using the other things in your life to help you and support you through bad days and, you know, some of the challenges that you face. I want to talk a little bit about some of the other things that have really helped you get through the last four years.
Ella: There’s been loads of different things. Church. We go to church a lot. I’m a Christian, so God is something that really helped me. We’re super close with the vicars, so they were helpful. When Leo passed away, they brought food over. My family is like my key one, I think that is just, the support from them is unreal. Like, they just do everything that they can to help me. They’re so lovely. And we’ve all lost Leo, so we all know, we all talk about him all the time. If we see something, it’s not like, oh, no one bring him up. It’s just like if we see Peter Pan somewhere on the TV, we’re like, oh, Leo would have loved that. Instead of just no one bringing it up because it’s awkward. We’re constantly, oh, that just reminded me of Leo. Like, it helps so much to take that in.
Maddi: I can tell the way your face lights up when you say his name. It’s really beautiful to see.
Órlaith: It’s really nice to hear you and your family talk about him all the time. Because I think that is a really important coping mechanism for people going through grief. And you’re exactly right, Ella, that some people, they don’t talk about someone because they’re afraid to and they’re afraid that, like, if they start talking, the emotions will be too much.
Ella: Yeah.
Órlaith: And actually, by not talking, you’re not, you’re not saving the stories, you’re not still having the moments the way that you and your family are, that you’re talking about. And actually, if we think about modern models of grief, you know, in the past we thought that grief was like a checklist and you went through all these phases and then you sort of had dealt with it and you moved on. But in the real world, we understand that grief is more like what you talked about, which is you, you heal and you grow around the memories and then you take the memories with you into the future. And lovely examples there where he’s still part of your day-to-day family life. You know, when you see Peter Pan and you still talk and you still smile about him, you know, he’s still there and he’s still part of you and your story. So I think it’s really powerful to hear how you talk about that. And you and your family just, you do that really, you know, I’m sure there’s been really hard times the first few times you’re talking about him, but you do it so naturally now and it makes you happy. You’re smiling when you’re thinking about it again.
Maddi: Your mum and I were chatting about other things that have helped you get through, you may not even be aware of, but like your interest and love for drama and the theatre. And your mum described it as kind of like she’s always had her thing that she’s been really good at and that’s been a real kind of just helpful thing in moving your life and knowing that you’ve got something you’re good at, you’ve got ambition. So tell us a little bit about. About that and m. What that bring that what it gives you to, you know, to be acting on the stage.
Ella: Drama massively helps, like, so much. It gives you confidence. Like I was three, four, something like that when I first got into drama. And you make, it’s a community, it’s a family. It’s my favourite thing, which you can step on stage and you can be anyone you wanted. And it gave me that drive. And you go to see performances. I saw Joseph and the Technicolour Dreamcoat when I was little. I was about 6. I watched the film, so my mum took me to go see with my family and I was like, I want to be one of those people mummy, because they have kids in the choir at the side. And I was like, I want to be in that. So auditions opened up and I have never been more like, I need to do this. I was so determined I had to be in the show. It’s dedication, it gives you something to put your mind to. And I think that really helps because I’ve always had that thing. I’ve always had friends from it. I’ve always, it’s gave me confidence. It’s what kinda makes me. I always say that, it makes me.
Órlaith: The confidence it gives you. And actually it sounds like, you know, when Leo passed away, it gave you some resilience to cope with that and it gave you something to like, throw yourself into when you sort of got back on your feet. And we’ve had conversations on this podcast before about people, young people who are struggling in life and. And they might have mental health problems, they might be facing challenges like bereavement, who don’t have their thing and it can be really difficult. And actually we’ve been talking about how do you help children find their thing when they are struggling. And so your story is really powerful to say that, because I have drama as my thing, what it gives you, confidence well- being, commitment, dedication. Do you have any advice for any young people who might be having a hard time and they don’t have a thing that they’re into?
Ella: You know what you like and dislike or the subjects at school, if you’re like, oh, I like this, I enjoy this, do it. And it is important because it’s your mental health at the end of the day, like, it may not seem, oh, it’s dance. Like, it’s not gonna… It does. I do dance. Best thing ever. It’s not only good for your physical, mental health, it’s double whammy. It’s amazing. Like, get back on your feet, do something. Because I don’t know where I’d be if I didn’t have drama. It has driven me, it has made me me. Like I said, it’s my thing. Like, it helps you so much when you’re feeling low. It drives you so it’s, right. Everything’s falling apart, but I’ve got drama. It gives you that, everything’s bad, but I’ve got this. And then you realise, well, not everything’s bad because you’ve got that.
Órlaith: That’s great. I love that, Ella.
Maddi: And again, I guess, speaking about things that have helped you, have you had to access any therapeutic support since Leo passed away? Have you had any counselling or support? And for someone else who perhaps might be going through the loss of a sibling, they might be thinking about getting help through therapy. And I think it’s like, well, especially as a younger person, what it. What is that? What does that feel like? You know, what have I got to do and say, you know? I think it’d be really helpful to speak about your experience of that.
Ella: I used to have therapy a while ago and I think, well, it’s occasionally like, I do. I do have always got someone there, you can always talk to someone. If you don’t want to, talk to your family about it, it’s too uncomfortable, talk to your therapist because they’re not going to judge you, because they talk to so many people and it’s their job, they’re not going to judge you because that’s normal for them, because it’s their industry, so they’re not going to judge you. So if you feel alone, talk to a therapist. It may feel like, the nerves I got when I first went to my therapist…
Órlaith: Really, were you nervous?
Ella: I was like, I was so nervous. It’s vulnerable, like you’re opening up to someone. So I didn’t want to speak to them. I was like, right, I’m just going to go there, put my head down. And then I ended up talking. And then they got into it and they give you little activities to do sometimes you’re doing something busy, you’ll just talk. So you’re not using your mind. You’re focused on something so you can talk. And it’s so helpful. It’s so supportive. I recommend therapy so much.
Maddi: That’s great that you’ve had a good, a really good experience of it. I think not everyone does. And I think sometimes it’s about whether you’re ready to open up, as you’ve said and, other things can kind of get in the way of that. What you were talking about there, I guess, is there’s some things like drawing and talking., my degree is in art therapy, so it’s all about kind of, yeah, therapy, through the creative arts and finding different ways to talk and different ways to express your feelings. So thank you for sharing that. I wanted to talk a little bit about your TikTok as well, and your online presence and what kind of made you decide, Ella, to, want to, because you’re, you know, to me, I’m like, God, you’re so inspiring. You’re a person, you’re 15 years old and you’re able to sit here and have this, you know, mature, emotionally mature conversation. And not only that, you know, you’re doing this for the greater good, despite your own pain. What is it that’s kind of driving you, do you think, to do those things and to, you know, be on TikTok and be sharing your story.
Órlaith: Is it Girl Versus Grief? Is that right?
Ella: It is, yeah, that’s the account.
Órlaith: Yeah, I like that tagline.
Ella: Thank you. The main thing was I’ve been given something that barely anyone’s given. You’ve lost your sibling. Not many people have to go through that. So I can either treat it as a weakness, or I can do something that will benefit me. This will benefit me. It will benefit other people whilst I’m doing it. I can be upset and that’s fine. You know, if you can paint, why waste that talent? Paint, be an artist. If you can sing, don’t waste it. Go out there and sing. If you’ve been given an opportunity that not many people can, I’ve lost my sibling. Don’t waste the opportunity. Go out, help other people who have. So that’s my main thing.
Órlaith: Is it okay to ask you a bit about what happened to Leo and your experience of it?
Ella: Yeah.
Órlaith: And why you think talking online would help other people who are going through the same thing?
Ella: It’s hard because it’s so different for everyone.
Órlaith: Right.
Ella: My story was very different to what I’ve seen other people’s story to be like. He was five when he was diagnosed. He was sick a couple of times, but you just think it’s a sickness bug. But then we went to the doctors and then they did some scans and we found out that he had a terminal brain tumour. My family found out that, I was at my grandparents at the time because my mum was in the hospital with Leo and they phoned my grandparents from the hospital because my mum found out on her own. I couldn’t go see her because of COVID It was, it was really bad. So she called my grandparents and they were off. Like, my granddad is nonstop joking about everything. My mama is like laughing 24 7. So it was such a switch in atmosphere. So it was really weird. I knew something was up. I think I remember I was like certain it’s his appendix because he had stomach ache. I was like, it’s just something like that, it’s nothing serious. And I was really, really scared. Then we went to visit him in the hospital later that day, I think, and I got took into a room with my family and my mum was there and everyone was really quiet. I was like, what is happening? I sat down in the room and my mum told me that he had a brain tumour that is terminal and he is going to die. And I think hearing that as an 11-year-old that your little brother, and we were so close, like from a young age I was non stop, like we were close, like the closest bond you have ever seen., like non stop taught, like we were best friends, we were so close. So he got DIPG, which is a terminal brain tumour. When children are diagnosed, most die in under a year. So I remember googling it. I heard DIPG a lot. So I googled it and that was even worse. Don’t recommend. But it just, it’s. Whoa. It was hard to think that’s your reality. You hear about it so much, you know they do young, like Stand Up To Cancer. You’re watching for Children In Need, the stories and you’re like, this is so sad. Like, I’m glad this isn’t happening to me because I don’t know what I do. And your brain switches off before it feels how you’d feel in grief because it doesn’t, it can’t have anything to relate to. So. But I think once you feel that your brain switches off, it just goes, no. Because you, your body doesn’t know how to process that. It thinks we can’t process it, so you don’t. But then once you go through it, it’s like, whoa. Because you have felt it so your brain, you know what I mean? It’s hard to explain, but that’s kind of how it is.
Órlaith: I think you’re doing a fantastic job of explaining it.
Ella: So I asked my mum if he was going to die. She said that he was. So then this was my year six thing and there was a year six leavers performance. So that was my thing to, I know I need to go to school, I need to get this performance done. That was again, drama helped me get through school. Amazing. But, so, I started doing that. I couldn’t go visit him because of COVID so I was just staying with my grandparents. I went up to secondary school whilst he was ill, which is hard as it is. And then, oh, it was so much, friendships and everything, year 7, secondary school, scary. But you know, it just made it so much more real. Then Leo had radiotherapy. It couldn’t make him better, which I think was really hard to understand. He’s getting treatment but it’s not making him better, but it’ll make him live longer. Then it was really hard to see my family sad because we are a very talkative, like talk non-stop, jokes everywhere, like the family banter is amazing. I can’t even. Like, we’re back and forth. I’m so lucky. My banter’s come from my mum, my granddad, like my uncle, like everyone. It’s just, it’s so amazing. And my stepdad. It’s just, you know, it’s a really lovely, funny, great family. So it’s really different to see everyone upset. Then we coped by doing special things. We went to Disneyland because that’s where he wanted to go. He went on his first upside down roller coaster. So that was a really big milestone and I was so like, he just. I remember we went to Fantasy Island as well and trying to convince him to go –
Maddi: Skegness?
Ella: Yeah, so good. Trying to convince him to go on a roller coaster there. So I still was going to school at this point. Then Leo passed away at six, just under six months, under six months under diagnosis, which I’m pretty sure it was nine to 12 months, he was said. But then, he had a scan near Christmas, which was on the 14th of December, which is just recently. So it’s been a bit of a hard week. But we had a scan and they said, I don’t think he’s gonna live till Christmas. So all our plans, Christmas presents we bought him, we were like, what do we do? Like, that is big news. So we split his presents in half. We had Christmas on. When was it? Or maybe this scan was before, I think. No, we did an early Christmas on the 14th and then we did a scan a bit before. So yesterday we did an early Christmas, we had the family round.
Órlaith: Aw, so it’s become a family tradition now?
Ella: Yeah, so it’s really cute. but every time we just say, “happy early Christmas” now. So we had a meal, the family came around, we did a couple presents. and luckily a miracle happened and he lived till Christmas. So we got to have our last Christmas with him, which was the biggest. Like. Like, I can’t even explain that. It was, it meant the world that we could spend that time with him. It meant everything. So then he passed away in January, the 10th. Um. It was. Yeah, it was massive. The world goes quiet when you lose someone that close. It felt like time has paused. I couldn’t even remember the date half the days I wasn’t going into school. It just felt numb, then. You just missed everything about him. You know, then the things that felt like the biggest problem as an 11-year-old weren’t anymore. It was, oh, I don’t know what to wear and this person’s not talking to me anymore and I just fell out with them. That didn’t matter. Nothing mattered. The only thing that mattered is Leo. And you’d hear your friends like, oh, this guy doesn’t like me back. It’s like, I don’t care. I want my brother back. Obviously, now it’s become a bit more. And you do, you have to realise that that’s the biggest problem to them and you shouldn’t undermine how they feel because they haven’t been through what you’ve been through. They will think maybe their dog passing away is the biggest deal to you. And I remember losing my dog and it was. But no matter what you’ve gone through, you’ve got to take into consideration that everyone’s problems are the biggest thing to them. Whether that seems like it to you, it won’t be for them. And that’s so important to remember because how you feel, they need that as well. They need your support. And everyone is struggling. Like, you can’t underestimate how they feel, because it will, you know, impact them too. There were a couple things that didn’t feel the nicest when I told people that he passed away. but, you know, children can say things that aren’t nice and they hurt, well, more like, so much more when you’re going through things. So that was my experience.
Maddi: Yeah, it sounds. The perspective taken, I think, is a really interesting one because I guess before you came on today, I was thinking about you and in the car on the way here and thinking being a teenager, being 16 and being, you know, from, I’d say from sort of nine years old these days to about, you know, 16, 17. It’s really tough. There’s a lot of changes. You know, you mentioned you transition up into year seven from year six. changes in your body, changes in your, all of those things that you have to go through. And then this added massive, you know, grief and complication and navigating the world, as you’ve said, where other people have kind of got problems, in inverted commas, and remaining in a perspective that you’ve just given of, I guess, like, real empathy for other people and humbleness in the way that you’ve just described it, you know, because you’ve kind of already touched a bit on, like, that anger about why me and why would this happen to me and been able to let that go and truly let it go so that you can still empathise with others and see the world from other people’s perspectives. I think that’s. That’s incredible. It’s really incredible.
Órlaith: Thank you so much for sharing your storey with us, and with the listeners. It’s a really special family storey and I think it’s so brave to think, I’m actually going to share this with everyone because there might be someone out there who’s going through something similar. And I actually work with your mum and she told me a while ago that one of the reasons you started the TikTok is because you were looking for things online and you were trying to find videos that would resonate with you and you couldn’t find anything. Is that sort of how you started getting the idea together?
Ella: Yeah, absolutely. It was. There’s always, like, influencers, TikTok famous people, and you’re like, I want to be like them. So you look and you say, okay, they do this, I want to do that. They do this. I feel like that too. And it makes you feel so uplifted. But when you see them and you’re like, they don’t know. I don’t feel like that it makes you feel so down. You see these people on tv, and it’s like their lives seem so perfect, but life’s not like that. It can be, but their life’s not like that. They have things that they struggle with that they don’t want to share with the world. And they want people to see that they have an amazing life and…everyone struggles. Life’s not going to be perfect 365 days every single year for your life. Like, that’s not. It’s not true. So I just wanted to feel understood. So I started making more videos and I wanted to be that person that someone could see the reality of the world. And I am still grieving to this day. I still do have days where I have panic attacks. And I’m like, it hits hard, but grief’s more like… There was this one, like, little thing that always used to help me. It was, your grief’s like a ball in a jar. The jar starts off really small, and the ball is taking up all of it, but the ball doesn’t get smaller. And the ball is your grief, the jar gets bigger, which is you. You get bigger. Your grief’s still the same size, and it’s still always there. But it’s just how you learn to grow with your grief and how you learn to deal with it. So it’s not that grief, which is like, your love for the person gets smaller or you forget about them. It’s just you become stronger and learn how to deal with it. And I think that’s something that really helped me as well. So it’s just getting your head around that.
Maddi: Yeah. that’s really cool. Good analogy. It’s one we use a lot in psychology. If the drama thing doesn’t work out, you should definitely think about going into psychology. And I guess, hence girl versus grief. You know, I just. I love that as a, as a tagline, girl versus grief, like, it’s just so. It’s so poignant, I guess, in what you’ve just said. It’s about this. You know, grief isn’t something that comes and goes away completely ever, is it? You know, it’s something that you live with daily. And it. It doesn’t change your love for Leo and his memory will always be there, and that will never go, but what will happen is your life will grow around it. And I suppose it’s, you know, for me, when I think about people that I’ve lost, when I’m really close to them, it’s something about the idea isn’t it of like, what they would have wanted for you in your life as well? And holding onto that a bit, you know, like, knowing that Leo would want you to, you know, build your capacity around that grief and be happy and be everything that you are doing, you know, Ella, and, you know, go on to be on the stage and. Yeah. And achieve all the wonderful things. Yeah.
Ella: He was my biggest cheerleader, came to all my shows. Like, we was so supportive and he loved seeing me on stage. I think that’s what he told me. But, he loved it, and it was something he’s always proud of me for. So that was, he would want me to keep on doing the stagey stuff. He’d want me to be talking to you guys now because it’s important for me that he could have been on to do such great stuff. He said he wanted to be a train driver and a dad when he was older. So my number one thing was, “I’m gonna share that with the world” because they deserve to, like, there’s so many things I want to do to remember him by, and I will. There’s long lists I’ve made up of ways to keep his memory going, and I will do that.
Maddi: That’s what it’s all about, isn’t it? It’s, yeah, it’s, keeping it alive for you in your mind. Maybe you need to learn how to drive a train, just as, you know, as a hobby, train driving.
Órlaith: What’s it been like for you now that you do girl versus grief? And tell us a bit about the interview as well. So it must be great for people who see your content and they think, oh, there’s, someone around my age, and they feel I’m not alone. But what’s it been like for you, making and sharing the content?
Ella: It’s been fun.
Órlaith: Has it?
Ella: It has been really, really fun. Talking to you guys now, it’s part of the experience. Talking to Morato was massive. He lost his sister, I think, I can’t remember now, he was 17, she was 15, I think, about my age now, or 14, nearish. but he was so lovely to talk to. It was really, that’s another thing. He inspired me so much. He started off, he wanted to be a footballer when he was younger, and he did that. And he lost a sibling and he could do what he, he had his dreams. Like, he’s doing what he wants to do and. And he’s like, you know, remembering his sister whilst he does it. So I thought it’s helping me because I’m showing everyone the storey because I read, um, what’s it called? A programme, of him and it was talking about his sister. And I was like, that is so amazing. That is incredible. I want to. I want to, like, the world should know about that. And once I did that interview, everyone, you know, everyone really supports Forest in my school, so it went around on TikTok, loads of people saw it in school and they were like, “oh, I saw your interview”. I was like, “did you?” And not everyone knew in school. Teachers didn’t know, but they were like, I didn’t know you went through that. And I was like, yeah. But it also helped me. It helped everyone. And I’ve had a couple people talk to me who I know might be struggling or have lost someone, and they said that they saw the interview and that means the world. It means the world to be able to see that they have. They saw my interview and there was comments like, “I’ve lost someone and this helps. I love seeing your perspective and that meant the world. I couldn’t stop smiling.”
Maddi: There’s something about that platform, isn’t it? You know, like, if. If you are somebody with a social following, et cetera, and you have been through something difficult, I think using that reach that you have to reach out to people and connect, I think is, something that’s… For me, it’s really important, you know, because you do have influence, like you say, like, someone like that has come along into your life and you felt less alone. Right. On that note, shall we? So we ask every guest a question.
Órlaith: And I’m really interested to hear your answer. Ella. What do you do in your life to remind you that you’re not alone?
Ella: The thing is, everyone will feel loss in their life. Everyone will lose someone. It’s inevitable, you will. So, it’s looking at the bigger picture instead of thinking, why am I going through this? No one in my school has this, well that’s what, 30 people in your form? 300 people in a year. Thousand in your school. That was a thousand out of how many people is on the planet? Like 8 billion. Like, that’s not a lot. So it’s looking at the bigger picture. It’s so hard to focus on and think because you, you want to feel sad and you want to be like, well, no, it is unfair because it feels unfair. It does feel so unfair. But it’s something that, once it happens to you, you can either sit there thinking that it’s unfair, or you can do something and learn how to make it feel less painful. That was my biggest thing. Talking to my family about it. They’ve lost Leo, they know what it’s like. I’ll talk to them about it. We do little things. We have a bench for him, so that makes me feel not alone. Just going there and… I’ve still got Leo. I do. He was so amazing. He was. Honestly, he’s my best friend. He understood me. He’s so amazing. I can’t even put into words how amazing he was. It’s just, he had his passions. If he didn’t want to do something, he wouldn’t do it. And rightly so! He just. He had his mindset, he had his morals and he was. Oh, he’s the loveliest boy you’d ever meet.
Maddi: It’s been amazing hearing about him. Ella, thank you so much. I can’t portray enough, the maturity, both emotionally and, you know, just your language and everything, the way that you are able to sit and process what’s happened to you, to help others. So thank you so much for being here.
Órlaith: I find it inspirational listening to you. I think you’re absolutely amazing.
Maddi: You really are, yeah.
Órlaith: And I think you talked about him being really empathetic, but I’ve been really struck by your empathy. So I think that’s the bit of him that’s with you and I think it’s in your whole family, really, that you’re doing what you do. And I know your mum does bits and pieces as well about telling your story and trying to help people. And that is the essence of NottAlone, isn’t it? We want to create a place for people to come on, come on the podcast, tell their stories and hopefully other people will listen and then they’ll feel like they’re not alone. So if you’ve listened today and you’ve experienced anything to do with loss or sibling loss, have a look on nottalone.org.uk and you might find some of services that are on there that can help. Thank you so much, Ella.
Maddi: Thank you, Ella.
[Music]
Ella: I would like to dedicate this episode to my little brother, Leo Michael Thomas Blower. He was six when he passed away. He was born on 22nd of September 2015 and he passed away January 10th 2022.
Music: When I spot the signs, know I’m not alone and the answer there lies in connection. Whatever you’re going through, I hope you know you are not alone. I hope you know you’re not alone.
